Hello All,
I have a pair of 880dt Beyers that I rewired and have measured at 275 Ohms. I have built many solid state amps in order to drive my phones. They have all been portable amps and are thus not the BEST possible sound I can get. I have settled on tube amps as the way to get the musical bliss that we are all seeking (please correct me if this information is not correct). I have plenty of experience with electronics and have been building Tesla Coils for years (so the high voltages of tubes aren't gonna phase me), but Tubes are a new frontier for me. So I please ask for your patience and understanding.
With all of that said - Here is what I want to achieve.
I want to build the best possible headphone amplifier and I'm willing to pay for it. I do not want to compromise any parts. (however, if one part is gonna run me $600 and there is a $120 version that is REALLY REALLY close to being as sexy - please let me know). Otherwise I'm looking for the wisdom and experience that you guys can offer.
Please don't hold back.
Graham
I have a pair of 880dt Beyers that I rewired and have measured at 275 Ohms. I have built many solid state amps in order to drive my phones. They have all been portable amps and are thus not the BEST possible sound I can get. I have settled on tube amps as the way to get the musical bliss that we are all seeking (please correct me if this information is not correct). I have plenty of experience with electronics and have been building Tesla Coils for years (so the high voltages of tubes aren't gonna phase me), but Tubes are a new frontier for me. So I please ask for your patience and understanding.
With all of that said - Here is what I want to achieve.
I want to build the best possible headphone amplifier and I'm willing to pay for it. I do not want to compromise any parts. (however, if one part is gonna run me $600 and there is a $120 version that is REALLY REALLY close to being as sexy - please let me know). Otherwise I'm looking for the wisdom and experience that you guys can offer.
Please don't hold back.
Graham
Graham
this is my take on headphone amp for BD. I own and enjoy a DT990 (600ohm) but you can use this amp to drive the lower impedance of yours
the output autoformer is not available but you can replace it with a parafeed 10k:600ohm. I don't know how much gain you need, let me know ... I'll try to comment on that. The 1k resistor sets the operating points for both the tube so you'll need to tweak it a bit.
PSU is pretty simple: full wave into LC filter. No need for more as the CCS is taking care of the noise. Tubes a re all cheap, CCS is cheap, loading L and OPT are not. I'd say you need a 500$ budget in parts.
Gianluca
this is my take on headphone amp for BD. I own and enjoy a DT990 (600ohm) but you can use this amp to drive the lower impedance of yours
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
the output autoformer is not available but you can replace it with a parafeed 10k:600ohm. I don't know how much gain you need, let me know ... I'll try to comment on that. The 1k resistor sets the operating points for both the tube so you'll need to tweak it a bit.
PSU is pretty simple: full wave into LC filter. No need for more as the CCS is taking care of the noise. Tubes a re all cheap, CCS is cheap, loading L and OPT are not. I'd say you need a 500$ budget in parts.
Gianluca
I don't know if it's the best possible, but it is a circuit that I made a long time ago that I thought sounded pretty good. I've never seen it before, and maybe that's because it sucks... But I was dumb enough to build it and listen to it.
Sheldon
Sheldon
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hello,
Tubes are nice. OpAmps with a BUF634 output are nice and a lot cheaper.
My first tube headphone amplifier was a bootleg Mapletree Audio EAR. Check this link. Ear+ Stereo Headphone Amplifier
You might also consider TTVJ, handmade by Pete Millett for Todd, 307A possibly the best Single End Triode headphone amplifier. Last price check was ~ $7,000.
I have made several SET HP amplifiers. The one I like best is a 6BQ6GTB with custom 8000 : 300 ohm Eletra Print balanced output transformers. I also have a pair of Edcor 5000 : 300 ohm 3 watts transformers (about $20 each) these are much cheaper but still sound very nice.
DT
All just for fun!
Tubes are nice. OpAmps with a BUF634 output are nice and a lot cheaper.
My first tube headphone amplifier was a bootleg Mapletree Audio EAR. Check this link. Ear+ Stereo Headphone Amplifier
You might also consider TTVJ, handmade by Pete Millett for Todd, 307A possibly the best Single End Triode headphone amplifier. Last price check was ~ $7,000.
I have made several SET HP amplifiers. The one I like best is a 6BQ6GTB with custom 8000 : 300 ohm Eletra Print balanced output transformers. I also have a pair of Edcor 5000 : 300 ohm 3 watts transformers (about $20 each) these are much cheaper but still sound very nice.
DT
All just for fun!
On the menu tonight we have...
Input >
Volume control
Grid stopper
6H30 triode
...about 20-25mA, with about 80V on the plate and about -3V of bias
...CCS anode load (use cascode of DN2540, as shown by Gluca in above post)
...LED as cathode bias element
Parallel feed output (AC coupled) via decent quality capacitor
Sowter 8665 wired 6:1
[ DC heaters ]
(If you have ground loop issues / local interference issues then add a Sowter / Jensen 1:1 transformer at the input).
If your objective is performance then you simply don't need any more than this amp.
Input >
Volume control
Grid stopper
6H30 triode
...about 20-25mA, with about 80V on the plate and about -3V of bias
...CCS anode load (use cascode of DN2540, as shown by Gluca in above post)
...LED as cathode bias element
Parallel feed output (AC coupled) via decent quality capacitor
Sowter 8665 wired 6:1
[ DC heaters ]
(If you have ground loop issues / local interference issues then add a Sowter / Jensen 1:1 transformer at the input).
If your objective is performance then you simply don't need any more than this amp.
Thank you everyone. And thank you Gordy for your confidence. I appreciate it when someone takes an initiative.
Let's go from Gordy's concept. Do you have a schematic you could send? I am completely new to tubes - It helps me a lot to know how these parts are interacting with eachother instead of just knowing what's the best and not why.
I know it's asking too much to have people explain how each and every component interacts - that's just silly; however, what I do ask is that we have a discussion about important parts and why they are the best for their job. And a schematic to see how these mothers are interacting would sure help a novice who just willingly bit off more than he could chew.
P.S. I'm considering building this amp:
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/my/OTL_version_82_ocl.gif
Can anyone please comment on it - in comparison to Gordy's amp - and to top quality amps in general.
And any ideas how much each amp will cost?
Graham
Let's go from Gordy's concept. Do you have a schematic you could send? I am completely new to tubes - It helps me a lot to know how these parts are interacting with eachother instead of just knowing what's the best and not why.
I know it's asking too much to have people explain how each and every component interacts - that's just silly; however, what I do ask is that we have a discussion about important parts and why they are the best for their job. And a schematic to see how these mothers are interacting would sure help a novice who just willingly bit off more than he could chew.
P.S. I'm considering building this amp:
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/my/OTL_version_82_ocl.gif
Can anyone please comment on it - in comparison to Gordy's amp - and to top quality amps in general.
And any ideas how much each amp will cost?
Graham
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If you can live with just hi-z here's a otl hp amp designed by Joe Lowe and posted to USENET in the mid 90s. I built one and still use it. Great-open-sound. Here's the original post:
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I have just designed and built a circuit you may be interested in. It uses a Russian 6922 (6DJ8) driving 6CL6 cathode follower outputs. The sound is fantastic, you can really hear the "monster image" with headphones.
If you look at the requirements for a tube that can directly drive a low impedance, very few have what it takes. Looking at the RCA tube manual the formula for the required Gm for instance is:
(umhos)= 1,000,000/ Zo (ohms)
This narrows the list to about five types. You also need a tube with a low plate resistance and high dissipation so we can pass some current.
I took a hint from video gear of the tube era, they always used the 6CL6 as the output stage to drive 75 Ohm loads. (flat to 4.2 Mhz!)
Joe
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I have just designed and built a circut you may be interested in. It uses
a Russian 6922 (6DJ8) driving 6CL6 cathode follower outputs. The sound is
fantastic, you can really hear the "monster image" with headphones.
If you look at the requirements for a tube that can directly drive a low
impedance, very few have what it takes. Looking at the RCA tube manual
the formula for the required Gm for instance is:
(umhos)= 1,000,000/ Zo (ohms)
This narrows the list to about five types. You also need a tube with a
low plate resistance and high dissapation so we can pass some current.
I took a hint from video gear of the tube era, they always used the 6CL6
as the output stage to drive 75 Ohm loads. (flat to 4.2 Mhz!)
Joe
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I have just designed and built a circuit you may be interested in. It uses a Russian 6922 (6DJ8) driving 6CL6 cathode follower outputs. The sound is fantastic, you can really hear the "monster image" with headphones.
If you look at the requirements for a tube that can directly drive a low impedance, very few have what it takes. Looking at the RCA tube manual the formula for the required Gm for instance is:
(umhos)= 1,000,000/ Zo (ohms)
This narrows the list to about five types. You also need a tube with a low plate resistance and high dissipation so we can pass some current.
I took a hint from video gear of the tube era, they always used the 6CL6 as the output stage to drive 75 Ohm loads. (flat to 4.2 Mhz!)
Joe
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I have just designed and built a circut you may be interested in. It uses
a Russian 6922 (6DJ8) driving 6CL6 cathode follower outputs. The sound is
fantastic, you can really hear the "monster image" with headphones.
If you look at the requirements for a tube that can directly drive a low
impedance, very few have what it takes. Looking at the RCA tube manual
the formula for the required Gm for instance is:
(umhos)= 1,000,000/ Zo (ohms)
This narrows the list to about five types. You also need a tube with a
low plate resistance and high dissapation so we can pass some current.
I took a hint from video gear of the tube era, they always used the 6CL6
as the output stage to drive 75 Ohm loads. (flat to 4.2 Mhz!)
Joe
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Attachments
Hello GrahamwJohnson.
Want to know how stuff works take small bites and chew slowly. Start with these two links.
http://hollowstate.netfirms.com/earplusdesign.pdf
http://www.tubecad.com/articles_2003/Grounded_Cathode_Amplifier/Grounded_Cathode_Amplifier.pdf
Then go over to tubelab.com and read about the Simple SE amplifier. Build the Simple SE with a 500 volt center tap power transformer. Checkout Hammondmfg.com . For a 250 to 300 ohm headphone use an Edcor GXSE3-300-5K output transformer. This amplifier will rock. I built one. This one can be completed as a first project for ~$400 or less.
Next there is no best amplifier. Just build one. Start easy with a kit of sorts then venture into that transformerless split phase push pull thing that you posted.
DT
All just for fun!
Want to know how stuff works take small bites and chew slowly. Start with these two links.
http://hollowstate.netfirms.com/earplusdesign.pdf
http://www.tubecad.com/articles_2003/Grounded_Cathode_Amplifier/Grounded_Cathode_Amplifier.pdf
Then go over to tubelab.com and read about the Simple SE amplifier. Build the Simple SE with a 500 volt center tap power transformer. Checkout Hammondmfg.com . For a 250 to 300 ohm headphone use an Edcor GXSE3-300-5K output transformer. This amplifier will rock. I built one. This one can be completed as a first project for ~$400 or less.
Next there is no best amplifier. Just build one. Start easy with a kit of sorts then venture into that transformerless split phase push pull thing that you posted.
DT
All just for fun!
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Thank your for your reply DT: however, I'm doing this project mainly because I have a pair of headphones that I want to TRULY maximize right now. And I don't want to pay someone $5000 for something that I would love and enjoy making myself for much cheaper. I'm willing to put in the money, so I'm simply asking the world what the best we have to offer in terms of sound quality. I'm not settling for anything less; I'll catch up with the knowledge - I'm not concerned. But my task needs to be taken seriously otherwise forums are of no help to me. Because almost all previous endeavors have done by myself because people don't give honest answers. I'm not saying your reply wasn't honest, but we both know it's not the best, boyo.
Graham
Graham
"I want the best car in the world." What does that mean, really?
And can someone who has never built even a go-kart expect that he'll build the "best" (whateverthehell that means) car ever? You're getting some good advice from DT- at least learn to walk before you try to enter the Boston Marathon. Otherwise, you'll have a pile of expensive parts and a bigger pile of frustration.
And can someone who has never built even a go-kart expect that he'll build the "best" (whateverthehell that means) car ever? You're getting some good advice from DT- at least learn to walk before you try to enter the Boston Marathon. Otherwise, you'll have a pile of expensive parts and a bigger pile of frustration.
I second what SY says. You simply cannot ask for the best headphone amp. YOU have to make something that is the best for you.
You start with an assumption that tube headphones are the best. They are for some. But will they be for you?
Walk before you can run.
So get a couple of tubes and read up on CCS's. Try different power supplies. Regulated or not. So many variables.
You start with an assumption that tube headphones are the best. They are for some. But will they be for you?
Walk before you can run.
So get a couple of tubes and read up on CCS's. Try different power supplies. Regulated or not. So many variables.
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Hello,
In post #7 you ask for expiations of how things work. That is why I offered up some stuff to read.
In your work with SS I am sure you went through the process of weeding out cheap vs. good (expensive) passive parts. Resistors and capacitors can be cents each to over $100 each. Much of the boutique market is subjective and depends on the flavor of the day. For Selecting resistors my goal is to keep a stable value in the operating circuit and not to add excessive noise. Mispec metal film will work well for most applications. Sometimes I use metal foil for critical low level signal locations.
Places not to skimp are your power supplies. I do not want to hear the power supply in the headphones. For example if you build any of the amplifiers in this thread regulated power supplies for the B+ and heaters are a good idea. Read TubeLab.com stuff about chokes and added motor start capacitors in his Simple SE part of this web site.
If you want arguably the best output transformers buy some custom handmade iron from Jack at Electra-Print. Jack made all the transformers in the 307A $6000 SET headphone amplifier.
I have made at least 10 headphone amplifiers, I am not finished yet. They are all the best, no kidding!
Just for fun!
In post #7 you ask for expiations of how things work. That is why I offered up some stuff to read.
In your work with SS I am sure you went through the process of weeding out cheap vs. good (expensive) passive parts. Resistors and capacitors can be cents each to over $100 each. Much of the boutique market is subjective and depends on the flavor of the day. For Selecting resistors my goal is to keep a stable value in the operating circuit and not to add excessive noise. Mispec metal film will work well for most applications. Sometimes I use metal foil for critical low level signal locations.
Places not to skimp are your power supplies. I do not want to hear the power supply in the headphones. For example if you build any of the amplifiers in this thread regulated power supplies for the B+ and heaters are a good idea. Read TubeLab.com stuff about chokes and added motor start capacitors in his Simple SE part of this web site.
If you want arguably the best output transformers buy some custom handmade iron from Jack at Electra-Print. Jack made all the transformers in the 307A $6000 SET headphone amplifier.
I have made at least 10 headphone amplifiers, I am not finished yet. They are all the best, no kidding!
Just for fun!
Pete Millet's "Starving Student" headphone amplifier is a nice and easy tube/mosfet hybrid design. Provided you can find some 19J6s, the price won't break the bank and it's an inexpensive way to hear the 'tube' sound. However, the design has become popular enough where the 19J6 is getting a bit scarce. Of course another tube could be used if some circuit parameters are changed.
Starving Student hybrid
Starving Student hybrid
I'll third SY and Bas... there is no best headphone amp... the same way as there is no best car, best red wine, best looking woman etc. All a highly subjective matter...
Of course you can pile up a lot of parts that are said to be best for some reason, but in the end you might end up frustrated because it doesn't sound what YOU consider best...
I started building headphone amplifiers 5 years ago with next to zero knowledge. I considered my first effort (C3G tube rectified and cap coupled) very good sounding, but 5 years later (and 6 more amplifiers) I know better.
Now this would be an Aikido (6N23P/6H30) with shunt regulated HV and parafeed opt's... sounds really nice to me but sure isn't THE BEST.
Gordy's approach sounds very nice to me when you want an opinion...
Of course you can pile up a lot of parts that are said to be best for some reason, but in the end you might end up frustrated because it doesn't sound what YOU consider best...
I started building headphone amplifiers 5 years ago with next to zero knowledge. I considered my first effort (C3G tube rectified and cap coupled) very good sounding, but 5 years later (and 6 more amplifiers) I know better.
Now this would be an Aikido (6N23P/6H30) with shunt regulated HV and parafeed opt's... sounds really nice to me but sure isn't THE BEST.
Gordy's approach sounds very nice to me when you want an opinion...
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
I'm a beginner here too but I already realized that 'best sound quality' is not such a different question from 'most beautiful woman' ....
and why rule out solid state ?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/headphones/160646-germanium-single-ended-class-headphone-amp.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/headphones/159815-rush-cascode-headphone-amp-jlh-output-stage.html
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If you want something that's considered up there with the best look for amps designed and built by people who obsessed with this kind of thing for many years. For instance, have a look here:
The Amity, Raven, and Aurora
Don't underestimate the complexities of building something truly outstanding.
Edit: in case you didn't find it in the above link:
http://www.nutshellhifi.com/gary/index.html
The Amity, Raven, and Aurora
Don't underestimate the complexities of building something truly outstanding.
Edit: in case you didn't find it in the above link:
http://www.nutshellhifi.com/gary/index.html
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