Input tube bias
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 9th May 2010, 11:45 PM #1 eeyore   diyAudio Member   Join Date: Aug 2005 Input tube bias Trying to understand the workings of a tube input stage. If we assume that we have a maximum of 2Vrms at the input of a power amp, and assume that we don't want to drive the input tube into positive current (A2), then would it be fair to assume that the driver stage bias must be less then -2.8V given the peak to peak voltage of 2Vrms is 5.65Vpp? I understand that the full signal at 2Vrms is not common, but still, we are trying to avoid A2 operation on the driver stage. Am I making sense or do I have it completely wrong? __________________ DF http://diy-audio-blog.blogspot.com
 10th May 2010, 12:28 AM #2 llwhtt   diyAudio Member   Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: SoCal In a cathode biased tube stage you don't want to exceed the voltage on the cathode. With your example you would need 2.828VDC, maybe a little more, on the cathode to avoid any problems. Craig
 10th May 2010, 12:35 AM #3 eeyore   diyAudio Member   Join Date: Aug 2005 Sorry, I forgot to mention I am talking about a grounded cathode with either grid or cathode bias. I assume that the tube specific cathode to grid voltage limitations must be respected. So assuming a 2Vrms input, the cathode bias should be say 3V to avoid A2 operation? __________________ DF http://diy-audio-blog.blogspot.com
 10th May 2010, 12:53 AM #4 Gordy   diyAudio Member   Join Date: Nov 2006 eeyore, you have it right. In addition, some tubes begin to draw grid current before reaching the 0 point, so if you expect to receive the full 2V rms (2.828V peak) input then I would suggest staying away from the -1 V area, hence a bias point around -4V (or more). Regards, Gordon
 10th May 2010, 12:58 AM #5 eeyore   diyAudio Member   Join Date: Aug 2005 Yeah, thanks for the replies, this can cleared this up for me. In short, biasing the input stage is no different to the power stage, to avoid A2, never let the grid swing to positive voltage and where possible, allow a bit of headroom. Cheers! __________________ DF http://diy-audio-blog.blogspot.com
 10th May 2010, 05:03 PM #6 kevinkr   diyAudio Moderator     Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Once you have determined the minimum input bias you then need to determine the operating point you want and hence the plate voltage required to achieve the desired quiescent current. Of course you could just use a CCS and set the current to your target value - making sure that the B+ is sufficient to not run into voltage compliance issues at the most positive portion of the plate swing.. __________________ "To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
 12th May 2010, 03:16 AM #7 eeyore   diyAudio Member   Join Date: Aug 2005 So for argument sake using a ECC99 with a CCS. Bias the voltage of gid at -6V and setting the current at around 20mA would mean a standing voltage of 200V or so. Assuming a 2Vrms signal, the grid would experience say -3V to -9V. Meaning the voltage across the tube be between 130V and 270V. Therefore, the B+ supply for the ECC99 with a CCS should be say 300V? Or have a something amiss? If it was choke/interstage loaded instead of a CCS, the B+ can be closer to the operating point voltage of a little over 200V (accounting for losses in the transformer) __________________ DF http://diy-audio-blog.blogspot.com
kevinkr
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by eeyore So for argument sake using a ECC99 with a CCS. Bias the voltage of gid at -6V and setting the current at around 20mA would mean a standing voltage of 200V or so. Assuming a 2Vrms signal, the grid would experience say -3V to -9V. Meaning the voltage across the tube be between 130V and 270V. Therefore, the B+ supply for the ECC99 with a CCS should be say 300V? Or have a something amiss? If it was choke/interstage loaded instead of a CCS, the B+ can be closer to the operating point voltage of a little over 200V (accounting for losses in the transformer)
In this case a choke sounds like the right way to go. Theoretically you can swing twice the supply voltage on the plate, in practice it will be significantly less but within the range you need. One of my designs swings more than 300Vpk on a 200V supply into a 50K load with excellent linearity..
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 12th May 2010, 04:54 AM #9 eeyore   diyAudio Member   Join Date: Aug 2005 But if it were using a CCS, the B+ would need to be 300V then? __________________ DF http://diy-audio-blog.blogspot.com
kevinkr
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by eeyore But if it were using a CCS, the B+ would need to be 300V then?
Even more actually for good linearity at the target amplitude, 350V - 400V depending on the tube used, that's one of the benefits of the choke.
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