This happens when you hire a good designer.

[wicked1]

Originally Posted by Evenharmonics

Bringing up "carbon-neutral" agenda to this particular discussion is an indication of something which you would probably get offended if I spelled it out (so I won't), but you may want to start a separate thread on it if you so desire.

I think he only mentioned one of the redeeming qualities of wood. It's definitely nicer to cut down and re-plant a tree than to dig a big pit or cut down an entire mountain to get at your materials! there's just no arguing about it! Look into the whole Tennessee valley river authority project.. Basically an entire state changed ecologically just so they could make aluminum! (and if you're in the US, yes, thats where your aluminum comes from)

And is there more carbon in the air! Umm yes! I don't think anyone in the world questions that anymore! even the most backwards people. They may still think it's not homosapien's fault, but most have at least stopped denying the facts! Go read a book, and try to be unbiased while doing it. Just look at a list of atmospheric readings taken over the past 100 years if a book is too much for you. Aren't we mainly engineers or other fairly well educated people here? At least enough to read and take in info w/ an open mind?

Sorry for the OT, but I couldn't believe someone going out of their way to go off on a comment about wood being carbon neutral! That's just a comment. Not an agenda!

And since this has sort of turned into another design thread..
sustainable design is now design 101... just basic stuff in school.. not some crazy left wing theory..

[benchtester]

Against my better judgment, I bite.

Wood does in fact tie up CO2, while it is wood. Most wood is decomposed and releases CO2 back into the enviroment. When a furniture or amp maker uses wood (and preventing decomposition), they are preserving the CO2 in the wood: hence are politically correct. (Let's ignore the scarp for now.)

As a mechanical engineer with a modest understanding of heat transfer; I am very concerned with wood as a thermal insulator. It is okay on vertical surfaces, but I would not want it on the horizontal surfaces.

[Evenharmonics]

Originally Posted by Steve Eddy

Throughout the 20th century and continuing today.

Massive, just moderate or tiny? Massive in terms of what? Earth has had its periods of frequent volcanic irruptions which spewed out massive amount of carbon dioxide along with other gases into the atmosphere. 20th century sure isn't the first time this planet has seen increased carbon dioxide in the air.

Far more than there would have been otherwise.

Do you have the numbers to explain this? You know, how many tons and ...etc.

The question not answered is, what is the problem?

[Evenharmonics]

Originally Posted by Richard Ellis

What is this intense aversion you have towards wood?

No such thing from me. Please reread my posts carefully including earlier ones in this thread.

Believe it or not wood has always been a very "human" material....it is/was a living thing that humanity has chosen to serve in a variety of roles. As such, it is a material that has a very deep connection with us all

I agree and I never disbelieved it. But what dose this have to do with my posts?

..............with a few exceptions.

Unless you meant..., oh, never mind.

[aardvarkash10]

[Steve Eddy]

Originally Posted by Evenharmonics

Massive, just moderate or tiny? Massive in terms of what? Earth has had its periods of frequent volcanic irruptions which spewed out massive amount of carbon dioxide along with other gases into the atmosphere.

The USGS estimates that volcanoes (both on land and underwater) generate about 200 million tons of CO2 annually. We humans on the other hand generate about 24 billion tons annually.

I'd call that "massive."

20th century sure isn't the first time this planet has seen increased carbon dioxide in the air.

Sure. But we have no control over natural processes. We do however have control over our own behavior.

se

[SY]

Guys, we're getting waaaaay too close to politics. There are some excellent sites where discussion of anthropogenic global warming is encouraged. This is not one of them.

[jackinnj]

Originally Posted by SY

Guys, we're getting waaaaay too close to politics. There are some excellent sites where discussion of anthropogenic global warming is encouraged. This is not one of them.

SY -- I see that you read the "Miss Manners" article in the WSJ last week. Next quote should be from Big George who instilled fear in the troops on his white charger. Ol' Erasmus also said not to wipe the grease on your cassock. I read "In Praise of Folly" about 35 years ago...

Politics is the abjuration of truth...

[Evenharmonics]

Originally Posted by aardvarkash10

I'm fascinated evenharmonics - I didn't introduce an agenda - you did! I merely stated a fact.

Its a fact that use of plantation wood for furniture, construction and other relatively stable uses is carbon neutral at worst and carbon positive (reduces atmospheric carbon) at best. The science of the effect on the atmosphere is pretty much complete at this stage


Correct, the discussion belongs elsewhere, but in the context of design its entirely appropriate to consider the sustainablity of the items we produce - especially given the operational energy inefficiency of Class A tube amps!

How big of a factor should this play when choosing diy chassis material (likely 1 time thing) for tube amp?

There are many facts and depending on how they are used, it can either be itself at face value or be exploited to pursuit things. I'm not saying you tried to exploit something but bringing up something as trivial as carbon-neutral-ness of wood in the case of making amp chassis seemed to me like an obsession and I have seen people with obsessions who tend to have agenda to pursuit. The internet communication has its drawbacks so this could be the result of it and if it was, I'll take it back.

the only real argument now is about the extent and timing of the result.

That's if the facts are available for public viewing.

Oh the wood insulation thing - its all big voltages inside - metals conduct well, wood doesn't. Simple - a wooden box is going to be safer in the event of a pretty odd but remotely possible set of failure circumstances.

That's why chassis grounding is used. Plus the benefit of shielding against EMI/RFI if it conducts electricity.

In any case, it wasn't as a specific reply to your pretty strong derision -

You may see it as a strong derision but it was merely a recommendation when choosing a practical material for tube amp chassis.

[aardvarkash10]