I use PP in oil GE and ASC caps exclusively in my B+ power supplies as filter caps. Best thing I've ever used, by a huge margin, and cheap as dirt. I don't like the straight PP's like Solens, but the Alioia's are better, if you can still find some.
Only problem is they're sort of large: 100u/440Vac ASC (GE's are bigger still) is the size of a coke can, but they polish up nice and look good mounted on the chassis top plate.
I have no experience of the Russian one's you're talking about (which I think are paper in oils), but unless you have some big chokes, you're going to need quite a few at 8u.
I don't generally like oilers directly in the signal path, but a GE and some Ducon's sound amazingly good in the xover of my horns. The caps in the amps are all teflon or PP foils.
Only problem is they're sort of large: 100u/440Vac ASC (GE's are bigger still) is the size of a coke can, but they polish up nice and look good mounted on the chassis top plate.
I have no experience of the Russian one's you're talking about (which I think are paper in oils), but unless you have some big chokes, you're going to need quite a few at 8u.
I don't generally like oilers directly in the signal path, but a GE and some Ducon's sound amazingly good in the xover of my horns. The caps in the amps are all teflon or PP foils.
Brett said:
I have no doubt that the russian PIO's are "coloring" the sound of my preamp as output caps. But, compared to the Solens, it's a coloring I can live with.
My plans for my next preamp are to squeeze PIO's into my PSU and use Auricaps as outputs. I currently use the old Solens as the first caps(paralleled) in a CLCLC, followed by those dreaded electrolytics.
Hi,
Let's just chalk it up to the fact that, as with most things, there are good PIOs and bad ones. I only want them in a PSU and would still prefer the ASCs any day of the week.
As for filmcaps, same as above, I never liked the Solens in the signal path and they never convinced me in PSU apps either.
Let me assure you that there are a lot more neutral sounding filmcaps out there than there are PIOs though.
Agreed.
Cheers,
Let's just chalk it up to the fact that, as with most things, there are good PIOs and bad ones. I only want them in a PSU and would still prefer the ASCs any day of the week.
As for filmcaps, same as above, I never liked the Solens in the signal path and they never convinced me in PSU apps either.
Let me assure you that there are a lot more neutral sounding filmcaps out there than there are PIOs though.
Agreed.
Cheers,
Brett said:
If you use the very largest Ansar PP, they are literally in soft drinks cans - they have that distinctive bottom! There isn't a ring-pull, mind, and they're sprayed a rather natty gloss black.
As for capacitor sound, I've used the Soviet PTFEs, and been impressed (driven by CD!), but it's all dependent on everything else. Soggy capacitors/amplifiers can tame fierce tweeters and early Shure cartridges (remember that sibilance?).
Just know what you are getting. I copied this from somewhere:
K31, SSG, SGM, KSO - mica, some types with silver - good
K40 - PIO - very good
MBGxx, KBG-xx, OMBG - PIO
K42, MBM, BM-x - paper (w/o oil ??)
K70, K71 - Polystyren ("polystirol") - good
K72, FT - teflon ("ftoroplast") - THE BEST
K73 - Polythelene Teraphthalate film ("lavsan") - poor
K75 - combined Paper+Film (Polythelene Teraphthalate??, with or w/o oil??)
K76 - Laquer film
K78 - Polypropilen
I will have to side with the ASC crowd. I tried Auricaps in my linestage's PS then went to very close in size ASC and the sound got better. CCS and VR tube shunt regulated supply. Tried GE for coupling and ASC and again found ASC better. ANything better than those fizzy Solens.
regards,
Douglas
K31, SSG, SGM, KSO - mica, some types with silver - good
K40 - PIO - very good
MBGxx, KBG-xx, OMBG - PIO
K42, MBM, BM-x - paper (w/o oil ??)
K70, K71 - Polystyren ("polystirol") - good
K72, FT - teflon ("ftoroplast") - THE BEST
K73 - Polythelene Teraphthalate film ("lavsan") - poor
K75 - combined Paper+Film (Polythelene Teraphthalate??, with or w/o oil??)
K76 - Laquer film
K78 - Polypropilen
I will have to side with the ASC crowd. I tried Auricaps in my linestage's PS then went to very close in size ASC and the sound got better. CCS and VR tube shunt regulated supply. Tried GE for coupling and ASC and again found ASC better. ANything better than those fizzy Solens.
regards,
Douglas
Hi,
As long as people realise that ASC caps are NOT PIO caps, I'm O.K. with this.
Maybe it's high time someone gave a little explanation on the topic?
BTW, Douglas, are the comments between brackets your own or are they copied in as well?
Not that I want to sound too harsh, but they seem as if made by someone who's never taken a single class in chemistry.
Cheers,
As long as people realise that ASC caps are NOT PIO caps, I'm O.K. with this.
Maybe it's high time someone gave a little explanation on the topic?
BTW, Douglas, are the comments between brackets your own or are they copied in as well?
Not that I want to sound too harsh, but they seem as if made by someone who's never taken a single class in chemistry.
Cheers,
everything in the middle blurb is copied from somewhere I thought reliable at the time. I jsut wanted a general idea of what was behind the labels on the Russian stuff. I was not interested in the spelling or by-lines.
I couldn't care less if ASC actually stuffed an electrolytic into the can. Or painted the cans pink and purple polka-dot. They sound great. So they aren't paper and oil dielectric? I don't think anybody claimed they were.
regards,
Douglas
I couldn't care less if ASC actually stuffed an electrolytic into the can. Or painted the cans pink and purple polka-dot. They sound great. So they aren't paper and oil dielectric? I don't think anybody claimed they were.
regards,
Douglas
Hi,
Agreed, they do sound great...no, they're not PIO caps but film in oil...which gives some people the wrong impression.
Some 30 years ago some audiophile people had already discovered the virtues of ShiZuki caps, it appears this company really knew how to wind foil caps...I spare you further details, just letting you know that ASC and ShiZuki are part of the same family.
An even better filmcap was produced by the Taitsu company but unfortunately it no longer exists.
Mind you I can even point to a French cap manufacturer that would outperform all of the above hands down...unfortunately they seem to be producing only for the mil. and aerospace.
Cheers,
Agreed, they do sound great...no, they're not PIO caps but film in oil...which gives some people the wrong impression.
Some 30 years ago some audiophile people had already discovered the virtues of ShiZuki caps, it appears this company really knew how to wind foil caps...I spare you further details, just letting you know that ASC and ShiZuki are part of the same family.
An even better filmcap was produced by the Taitsu company but unfortunately it no longer exists.
Mind you I can even point to a French cap manufacturer that would outperform all of the above hands down...unfortunately they seem to be producing only for the mil. and aerospace.
Cheers,
If you do not have a capacitance meter with leakage measurement then take notes for the B+ rail voltage before adding the HV oil caps (or any new caps). Make sure that all the leads are as short as possible. After their addition, turn the power on and observe that the B+ rail voltage is not sagged down, no strange sounds, and the chassis is quiet without any new vibrations. I have yet to found any big HV oil caps leaking. I do have a capacitance meter with leakage measurement.
The ASC metallized poplypropylene in oil caps sound detailed but lacking in bass weight and authority. The NOS oil caps with date code older than 1977 are definitely PIO and do sound more dynamic, alive, and more powerful bass. They are lacking in details compared to the ASC, that is the reason the Russian oil caps are needed. Similar to a 2 way or 3 way loudspeakers, a combination of caps are needed to satisfy the bass, mid and high of music electrical signals.
The ASC metallized poplypropylene in oil caps sound detailed but lacking in bass weight and authority. The NOS oil caps with date code older than 1977 are definitely PIO and do sound more dynamic, alive, and more powerful bass. They are lacking in details compared to the ASC, that is the reason the Russian oil caps are needed. Similar to a 2 way or 3 way loudspeakers, a combination of caps are needed to satisfy the bass, mid and high of music electrical signals.
Put a big resistor in series with the voltage source. when voltage is constant there should be no voltage on the resistor. Don't go too high or the small line voltage variations( assuming a variac, HV transand bridge rectifier with small cap filter) will make things hard to see.
regards,
Douglas
regards,
Douglas
Tomatito said:
Providing you're not beyond the spec for a tube rectifier, why use such tiddler caps? An 8u Russian oil is going to be lacking in both bass weight and decent ripple performance unless you have some high value chokes or a good regulator.
Random though for the day: would Dan Quayle spell your moniker Tomatitoe?
Here's part of the PSU: the 8 u's are actually paralleled. I probably could use one single cap of double the value instead ?
I found a couple of CDE caps of the same value , however, they are horrendously expensive.
Dan Quayle ? I would write his name as "Kweel". I guess it depends on how good his spanish is.
I found a couple of CDE caps of the same value , however, they are horrendously expensive.
Dan Quayle ? I would write his name as "Kweel". I guess it depends on how good his spanish is.
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