Can I use this output transformers with a 5965?

phrarod · 4th September 2009, 02:47 PM

I have a pair of AN output transformers C-core HiB that are designed for ECC82, 5687, E182CC, 6SN7, 6463 tubes. Would these load a 5965 correctly or do I need other output trans for optimal performance?

BudP · 5th September 2009, 02:30 AM

Likely will be a bit light on bass. Inductance needed for -3db at 20 Hz, for the 5965 is 27 Henry, with -0.5 db some 2.76 times that. The other tubes need around 15 Henry for - 3db. If your transformer is from Lundahl, they generally post the useful inductance out in the middle of the permeability range. A 1volt 120Hz test will provide you with the lowest operational inductance of the device, but you need to know the permeability curve of the core material to guess at what will be available. Typical inductance will be about 10 times what the 1volt 120 Hz reading shows, from an inductance bridge.

Bud

phrarod · 5th September 2009, 02:44 AM

Thanks Bud. I am having bass issues.

That all makes sense. I've been searching for a output trans that would work. I've contact Lindahl and Silk. Silk can build a 12K:600 ohm (1 :0.22) OT but he insists on potting it and I've been told potting can create problems.

BudP · 5th September 2009, 02:53 AM

Not potting will create even more problems, like corona death in under 12k hours of use, as opposed to 300 K hours with vacuum potting. I will not let a high voltage signal or power transformer out of our plant without vacuum potting. Plus, we only build to CE 6500 safety standards. All of this so you don't end up with a fire or shock hazard.

Bud

Poindexter · 5th September 2009, 03:27 AM

5965 has same rp as 6SN7, 12AU7 (ECC82 etc.), with ~twice the gm. What am I missing here, Bud? I always look at load/rp.

Aloha,

Poinz
AudioTropic

phrarod · 5th September 2009, 03:58 AM

I didn't know you made transformers. Would you be willing to discuss making a pair? If so please PM me.

BudP · 5th September 2009, 05:01 AM

Hey Poinz,

Long time no see.... I suspect I am missing far more than you are, but, here is the data I have. Doesn't mean I understand it with the same clarity that you, or any amp designer must, but it is the data I would design from, out of Frank's archives.

5965
Plate resistance 7250 ohms
Transconductance 6500 ohms
3427 Z ohms without pri DCR 27.87 Henry for -3 db @ 20 Hz

5687
Plate resistance 3000 ohms
Transconductance 5400 ohms
1928 Z ohms without pri DCR 15.35 Henry for -3 db @ 20 Hz

6SN7
Plate resistance 7750 ohms
Transconductance 2600 ohms
1946 Z ohms without pri DCR 15.50 Henry for -3 db @ 20 Hz

Bud

BudP · 5th September 2009, 05:43 AM

Pharod,

You have mail.

Bud

phrarod · 5th September 2009, 05:44 AM

Reading it now...

Poindexter · 6th September 2009, 01:55 AM

Bud, it appears to me that you are loading the 6SN7 and 5965, which have almost identical rp, very differently. Why is this? Am I reading your numbers incorrectly?

Aloha,

Poinz

4th September 2009, 02:47 PM	#1
phrarod diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2005	Can I use this output transformers with a 5965? I have a pair of AN output transformers C-core HiB that are designed for ECC82, 5687, E182CC, 6SN7, 6463 tubes. Would these load a 5965 correctly or do I need other output trans for optimal performance?

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5th September 2009, 02:30 AM	#2
BudP diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: upper left crust, united snakes	Likely will be a bit light on bass. Inductance needed for -3db at 20 Hz, for the 5965 is 27 Henry, with -0.5 db some 2.76 times that. The other tubes need around 15 Henry for - 3db. If your transformer is from Lundahl, they generally post the useful inductance out in the middle of the permeability range. A 1volt 120Hz test will provide you with the lowest operational inductance of the device, but you need to know the permeability curve of the core material to guess at what will be available. Typical inductance will be about 10 times what the 1volt 120 Hz reading shows, from an inductance bridge. Bud

5th September 2009, 02:44 AM	#3
phrarod diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2005	Thanks Bud. I am having bass issues. That all makes sense. I've been searching for a output trans that would work. I've contact Lindahl and Silk. Silk can build a 12K:600 ohm (1 :0.22) OT but he insists on potting it and I've been told potting can create problems.

5th September 2009, 02:53 AM	#4
BudP diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: upper left crust, united snakes	Not potting will create even more problems, like corona death in under 12k hours of use, as opposed to 300 K hours with vacuum potting. I will not let a high voltage signal or power transformer out of our plant without vacuum potting. Plus, we only build to CE 6500 safety standards. All of this so you don't end up with a fire or shock hazard. Bud

5th September 2009, 03:27 AM	#5
Poindexter diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Maui, Hawai'i, USA	5965 has same rp as 6SN7, 12AU7 (ECC82 etc.), with ~twice the gm. What am I missing here, Bud? I always look at load/rp. Aloha, Poinz AudioTropic

5th September 2009, 03:58 AM	#6
phrarod diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2005	I didn't know you made transformers. Would you be willing to discuss making a pair? If so please PM me.

5th September 2009, 05:01 AM	#7
BudP diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: upper left crust, united snakes	Hey Poinz, Long time no see.... I suspect I am missing far more than you are, but, here is the data I have. Doesn't mean I understand it with the same clarity that you, or any amp designer must, but it is the data I would design from, out of Frank's archives. 5965 Plate resistance 7250 ohms Transconductance 6500 ohms 3427 Z ohms without pri DCR 27.87 Henry for -3 db @ 20 Hz 5687 Plate resistance 3000 ohms Transconductance 5400 ohms 1928 Z ohms without pri DCR 15.35 Henry for -3 db @ 20 Hz 6SN7 Plate resistance 7750 ohms Transconductance 2600 ohms 1946 Z ohms without pri DCR 15.50 Henry for -3 db @ 20 Hz Bud

5th September 2009, 05:43 AM	#8
BudP diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: upper left crust, united snakes	Pharod, You have mail. Bud

5th September 2009, 05:44 AM	#9
phrarod diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2005	Reading it now...

6th September 2009, 01:55 AM	#10
Poindexter diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Maui, Hawai'i, USA	Bud, it appears to me that you are loading the 6SN7 and 5965, which have almost identical rp, very differently. Why is this? Am I reading your numbers incorrectly? Aloha, Poinz