??? Output Transformer - Silicon Steel or Amorphous - Page 4 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Tubes / Valves

Tubes / Valves All about our sweet vacuum tubes :) Threads about Musical Instrument Amps of all kinds should be in the Instruments & Amps forum

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th September 2009, 02:13 AM   #31
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudP View Post
I will never know how this OPT really performs objectively, as George passed away recently and there are no amplifiers available to investigate.
Chris & i know where there is a captive example

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2009, 07:48 PM   #32
BudP is offline BudP  United States
diyAudio Member
 
BudP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: upper left crust, united snakes
Dave,

Will your test gear pull loaded data from those hidden treasures? Other than the rather noticeable distortion fatigue from them, what do you like and dislike about those amps?

Bud
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th September 2009, 11:21 PM   #33
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Chris is the one living with the amps. Daniel could rn ome tests on them... you'd need to query him about what we can do. The HP network analyser we have is pretty capable.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th September 2009, 06:14 AM   #34
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
Dave - you're certainly welcome to test them, and Bud, some of the modifications you suggested (along with a few minor others) have been performed on these.

Yes, it's a great shame that George never embraced the use of higher sonic value components, or at least allowed space in his chassis for those who do.
__________________
you don't really believe everything you think, do you?
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com commercial site planet10-HiFi
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th September 2009, 12:15 PM   #35
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Hi, BudP,

What model/mark/brand of material you would recommend for amorphous core PP transformer? This is very large group of alloys, different manufacturers use very different designations, for example Finement (Japan) = FeCubNbSiB (China), FeSiB (China) = 2605-S2 (USA), etc.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2009, 03:44 AM   #36
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: US
Default Looking For Body & Weight Of Tone

Really interesting thread.

I'm curious which of the material types mentioned will lend more weight or body to an instrument's sound/tone? I'd like a bit more weight in the sound of my system and am willing to try getting it and possibly other gains by upgrading output transformers. Any ideas?

Thanks,
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2009, 03:49 AM   #37
agent.5 is offline agent.5  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Shall we add nickle to the discussion?
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2009, 03:59 AM   #38
BudP is offline BudP  United States
diyAudio Member
 
BudP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: upper left crust, united snakes
TV Man,

I would need to know a bit more about your system and what you mean by weight and tone, before offering my opinion.

In a general sense, a properly designed and built commercial core OPT, using M3 and treating differential dielectrics within the coil structure as an E Field lens, as opposed to amorphous core construction, which will have slightly better distortion performance but be somewhat lacking in gradient information, for the internal structure of notes and transients, might be a better choice for you. However, a lot depends upon your speakers and your definition of weight. The two types will be roughly comparable in cost, at about $1000 per pair.

At the next level down, they will again be roughly comparable in cost but the above differences will be more noticeable and the cost around $500 per pair.

The last, but not least level will have very few amorphous core contenders and the commercial core has a noticeable advantage in information retention, with a wider gap relation in distortion. Cost here will be around $300 per pair.

Below this point the commercial core transformers reign, but their construction details begin to erase the level of gradient detail the above transformers attain.and though smooth and melodious, they are not going to allow you to hear what it sounds like you are after. Costs here run from $120 per pair up to $200 per pair.


Bud
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2009, 04:05 AM   #39
BudP is offline BudP  United States
diyAudio Member
 
BudP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: upper left crust, united snakes
Agent 5,

Nickle core is limited in the sizes available in E/I core construction. Tape / cut core nickle can be very good, but there are still some niggles with what level of coupling can be allowed in the coil structure, before Q sets in and you have both rising phase and frequency response, to a peak, at about 30 Khz. E/I M3, used in interstages, is also under this threat.

Bud
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th September 2009, 04:10 AM   #40
BudP is offline BudP  United States
diyAudio Member
 
BudP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: upper left crust, united snakes
Links Guru,

Sorry, I missed your post. I no longer know what the various nomenclature refers to in performance with amorphous core. You might ask Dave Slagle at Intact Audio on hid forum. He is a current advocate of all types of C Core construction and may be current with what is being offered in the market place. Alloys do seem to come and go in that material as it's usage changes. It is also possible Per Lundahl at Lundahl would respond. They have their cores wound for them and I am sure have only a couple of materials they have settled on.

Bud
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
source of nickel + silicon steel laminations beetel Tubes / Valves 2 28th November 2012 10:36 AM
Grain oriented silicon steel core data needed eppidei Tubes / Valves 0 14th September 2007 02:08 AM
Ni-Fe-B base nanocrystalline amorphous Output. tube-lover Vendor's Bazaar 42 19th June 2007 09:30 AM
Transformer Steel Material TunaFish Tubes / Valves 11 29th November 2003 01:44 AM
Stupid question: Where do you find the steel transformer plates... hoxuanduc Chip Amps 21 26th May 2003 08:52 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:45 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2