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Old 17th June 2009, 08:11 AM   #11
rtsang is offline rtsang  Hong Kong
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeb-D.


Also, your supporting the exploitation of cheap labor.
Well, if you buy anything now, you will be supporting the exploitation of cheap labour.

All iPod, auto parts, furnitures, almost anything, could have some parts or all made in China.

You can call it exploitation, but I had talk to some of these labourers and ask them why would they like to work these "sweat shops"?

They day they get paid much more than farming their small plot of land back in the mountainous villages in the countryside.

Most of these workers make around USD120-150 a month, with meals and accomodation provided by the factory. They make USD50 or less at home. They say in 2 or 3 years they can save enough money to rebuild their house or send their kids to college in the city.

There are 800 million peasents in China, more than twice the total population in US. I think one of the way to improve the living standards for these peasents is to send them to "sweat shops".

Also, China is one of the most "capitalistic" country in the world. There is minimal labour law and labour protection. And a new class of capitalist comprising of these factory owners and government officials now exists in the "classless" communist state.

I better shut up before the secret police hunt me down and send to to a labour camp.
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Old 17th June 2009, 08:25 AM   #12
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And on the other side of the coin, we have auto manufacturers frying in their own fat for paying too much out to the workers.

There has to be a happy medium where the worker can support his family and people can buy the product in good conscience.


Quote:
One day soon "Made in China" will have the good reputation of "Made in Japan", so keep an open mind please.
A point I've made a few times.

Remember the absolute JUNK Japan cranked out in the 70's and early 80's? NOW it commands top dollar and is worth every penny!

Every nation has growing pains when they "come of age" in an industrial sense.



Cheers!
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Old 17th June 2009, 09:05 AM   #13
kheper is offline kheper  United States
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Some of the Chinese amps look almost too good to pass up. The Music Angel 845 is considered a fine sounding amp, once a few mods to the driver circuitry are performed. I do not think anyone could build one from scratch for the purchase price of a factory produced one.

http://www.lampizator.eu/AMPLIFIERS/...ng%20Kong.html
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Old 17th June 2009, 09:08 AM   #14
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Jeb: with all due respect, please refrain from making such outlandish statements like this "or those transformers could be 80% epoxy, the internal wiring could be tin or steel, ect." I have bought, seen and heard several Chinese tube amps, preamps, cdps over the years from Cayin; Ming Da; Xindak; East Sound, Jungson etc and have had a look underneath their lids - all meticulously hard wired and well constructed and NONE that I'm aware of are fake or have 80% epoxy filled transformers.
Tim de Paravicini recounted stories about the epoxy-filled transformers. He recounted that the innards looked like "drowned rats" once the potting was eaten away.

To be clear, I have no personal experience with these particular amps or any other Chinese tube product except for James transformers (very positive experience).
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Old 17th June 2009, 10:18 AM   #15
rtsang is offline rtsang  Hong Kong
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY


Tim de Paravicini recounted stories about the epoxy-filled transformers. He recounted that the innards looked like "drowned rats" once the potting was eaten away.

To be clear, I have no personal experience with these particular amps or any other Chinese tube product except for James transformers (very positive experience).

To be exact or politically correct, James transformers are made in Taiwan, not communist Mainland China.

There are a lot of poor quality products and outright fakes made in Mainland China.

Most of the major speaker manufacturers now have production lines in China, either making parts or assemblying the finish products. The key is the quality control and the eagerness of the manufacturer to uphold their reputation.

Lots of Chinese manufacterers are just too eager to make quick money and cheat their customers. The first few guys can make enough money to retire, the rest of the business suffered from the bad reputation.

What we pay for now is the quality control and honesty of the reputable Western companies manufactuering the products in China, like Apple.
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Old 17th June 2009, 10:21 AM   #16
SY is offline SY  United States
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To be exact or politically correct, James transformers are made in Taiwan, not communist Mainland China.
To be exact, they are made in the Republic of China.
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Old 17th June 2009, 10:59 AM   #17
wwenze is offline wwenze  Singapore
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Although OT and noobspeak, I feel that I have to point out that a lot of things (especially components) are produced in China and then rebranded elsewhere.

Take this for example: a 698 China RMB Yuan product selling for US$229

Or this: "Beresford" TC-7510, made famous in head-fi for "fraud"

Then there are also those that are designed elsewhere and produced in China, you don't see clones of those because of copyright.

Conclusion? China =/= bad. People producing cheap and selling expensive = bad
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Old 17th June 2009, 11:45 AM   #18
Steve M is offline Steve M  Australia
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Sy: that is largely myth, TimDePv has been around for long time and may have seen such a thing a decade or so ago, but do you think today with all manner of Chinese amps going for review to U.K magazines etc. they would even attempt such a thing ??

Also, I have heard that Mark Levinson (Red Rose label) is even re-badging some Chinese products - that's how good they sound!

Regards,

Steve M.
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Old 17th June 2009, 12:48 PM   #19
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
but do you think today with all manner of Chinese amps going for review to U.K magazines etc. they would even attempt such a thing ??
Possibly, yes. Review magazines are not exactly skilled, independent arbiters.
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Old 17th June 2009, 01:14 PM   #20
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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I had a line of tube electronics OEM'd by a company based in HK and manufacturing in Shenzen. The quality of the components used and the build quality were quite good, and particularly for the price I paid them to manufacture my design - and this was 10yrs ago.

With regards to that dac it is more than possible that they are all exactly the same and the manufacturer (Chinese) is building and selling slightly customized versions for different resellers, and may actually hold the IP rights on the design depending on who originally designed it. This is not all that unusual in the OEM environment, and there is no shortage of very good, even great engineering design talent in China today. I'm not saying that is absolutely the case here, but it may very well be, and there are plenty of unethical people on this side of the pond as well.
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