isaacc7 said:
Luckily for you they seem hell bent on buying treasuries, in effect exchanging one worthless paper for another. Now if they didn't...
After decades of labour union extortion and government regulation manufacturing is not so cost effective in the Western world. Maybe cars will never again be made on US soil. Or tube amps. So, what? Leaves us more time to concentrate on hobbies while the BRIC countries do all the hard work. For paper.
I thought it is time to start business in SA, even ANC is not so crazy to stop protectionism, so some economical independence still exists, and for Rands you can buy a food, and a car made in SA by Mercedes, for example. Also, if to harness Alexandra to built chassis, Soweto to wind toroids.... 
It sounds like a great project! 
It sounds like a great project! 
America and Britain lost the plot about 30yrs ago. We lost the idea that you have to work for what you have and the wealth in the economy. Now days we produce practically nothing, so where is the incoming coming from. The city spivs came up with the idea that we could create money out of thin air through the markets, always looking for the quick buck and never investing in the long term. Look at where all that thinking has got us.
We are where we are now because thats how we have operated for 20yrs, thinking that we can create our wealth out of thin air. The world has wized up to us selling our trash currency and the gravy train has ran into the buffers. China has a real economy and is fast becoming the richest country in the world - because they price realistically and live within their means. The western world is going to have to get used to the fact that we will have to start working at real things again to just support ourselves, the future for us will not be as rosie as the past - and that it simple reality.
For me there are bigger issues of sustainability which effect the whole world, including China- but thats a different story.
Shoog
We are where we are now because thats how we have operated for 20yrs, thinking that we can create our wealth out of thin air. The world has wized up to us selling our trash currency and the gravy train has ran into the buffers. China has a real economy and is fast becoming the richest country in the world - because they price realistically and live within their means. The western world is going to have to get used to the fact that we will have to start working at real things again to just support ourselves, the future for us will not be as rosie as the past - and that it simple reality.
For me there are bigger issues of sustainability which effect the whole world, including China- but thats a different story.
Shoog
Wavebourn said:
Ha, ha. The rand is again getting super strong due to the interest rate differential. Labour is at the same time expensive, underqualified and unmotivated. Not even going to mention the amount of copper wire which will mysteriously disappear from either the primaries, or secondaries of the toroids. Or both. I suspect you are missing all the excitement of driving through Hilbrow at night.
Steve M said:
Hi Steve,
I am sure that you are correct. One of the assumptions of DIY is that you are going to save money. In most instances this is not the case. From memory, the capacitors alone for my last amp cost more than some of the Chinese amplifiers mentioned above!
I doubt that it is possible to make a decent DIY amplifier for less than $500 and in some ways this threatens DIY - the 'raw nerve' that you refer to. What's the point of DIY if you can buy it cheaper from China? Further, the unique DIY tube amplifier that took you 12 months to build is now not such a marvel - your mates all saw a 'better' one on ebay for 250 bucks!
If one embarks upon DIY to save money then disappointment will follow. However, the entertainment and satisfaction of designing, building and tweaking your own amp far outweighs any financial consideration - that's what I think DIY is about; satisfying the urge to create something special and unique.
The $500 Chinese amp (with no disrespect implied to the quality) will end up in the bin with all the other consumer electronics within 5-10 years, whilst the DIY amp will have a place of pride for a whole lot longer. My boys know that a condition of the inheritance is to look after the amps and pass them on to their children.
Rob
A simple example.If you buy one Panasonic ECA "audio-grade" 470uF/100V cap from Farnell it costs 1.32 euro each.If you buy 500 caps price is 0.68 euro each,and if you buy 1000 caps price is 0.56 euro each.Now,if a Chinese amplifier manufacturer buys 10000 caps say directly from Panasonic,or even cheaper caps from another supplier,how can DIY make the same amplifier cheaper?And we are talking about caps.What about casing,transformers and all it takes for a perfectly finished amplifier?
EVERYONE wants less expensive. affordable audio. Thats why all the new generations of consumers ARE NOT and CAN NOT afford most tube amps.
DIYers are supposedly experts, and can have a dramatic effect on parts and production costs to manufacturers.
::To the majority of posters in this thread- good job fellas. Most of you stayed on non-political topic !
DIYers are supposedly experts, and can have a dramatic effect on parts and production costs to manufacturers.
::To the majority of posters in this thread- good job fellas. Most of you stayed on non-political topic !
The sticker price is misleading
I did a run through all these eBay stores that are selling these amps. They all post a rediculously low price of something like USD299 for a EL34 PP amp.
When I look into the details, the shipping is USD300 with airmail and "NO LOCAL PICKUP"
Come on, I live in Hong Kong,even if you do not allow me to pick up in your warehouse, it will cost only USD12 to ship it to my door with courier, the same day.
Yet they are charging USD300 with a 14 days delivery time to ship something 5 miles from my home!
I think they rip off a lot with the shipping.
It should cost something around USD150 to ship with FedEx from Hong Kong to US or Europe.
I did a run through all these eBay stores that are selling these amps. They all post a rediculously low price of something like USD299 for a EL34 PP amp.
When I look into the details, the shipping is USD300 with airmail and "NO LOCAL PICKUP"
Come on, I live in Hong Kong,even if you do not allow me to pick up in your warehouse, it will cost only USD12 to ship it to my door with courier, the same day.
Yet they are charging USD300 with a 14 days delivery time to ship something 5 miles from my home!
I think they rip off a lot with the shipping.
It should cost something around USD150 to ship with FedEx from Hong Kong to US or Europe.
I've pulled some posts that violate the "no political discussion" rules. There are some excellent places on the Internet to discuss politics and economics (gratuitous plug: I am a frequent participant in the discussions at Reason.com); this just isn't one of them.
Re: The sticker price is misleading
But the question remains unanswered: is it real to manufacture a thingy of such complexity for such a price? I am asking because I need to find manufacturers and to get quotes from them. I am going to offer amplifiers of my design and kits to build them, after publication in Elektor.
rtsang said:
But the question remains unanswered: is it real to manufacture a thingy of such complexity for such a price? I am asking because I need to find manufacturers and to get quotes from them. I am going to offer amplifiers of my design and kits to build them, after publication in Elektor.
TubeMack said:Look at this $500 amp!
I know many here don't care, but I like nice looking gear. Speaking strickly of aesthetics How could a DIY compete with that $500 amp. Case work like that would cost over a grand here even if you could get it which you can't. If the transformers were decent, I would be tempted to buy one just for the parts, throw the PCB away and P2P it! Hell it might be fantastic with just a few upgrades?
That's Audio Space from Hong Kong rite? Been to their show room once, heard enough of them to know that i won't buy it (with their OEM tubes in their showroom); I would try JE Audio (HK) or Opera Consonce from Beijiang, China, both great with the tubes they come with, audited them in JE's HK showroom, and Opera's main agent in Guangzhou one or two years ago, no complains there.
rtsang said:
Hi Tsang, why bother to explain? LMAO..
They didn't complain about the japanese in the 50s, the korean in the 70s, and HK in the late 70s and early 80s?
They wouldn't understands, cost of living is different hance the cheap labour, mainland govt gives 9 years of free education, so child labour is a thing of the past, why ain't they complaining about viatnam? or South East Asia? or London in the industrial revolution?
I worked in manufacturing in china , and know how those workers handle their responsibility, but also enough university graduates to know what they are worth. Outside of manufacturing, let's say in IT, or the tech sector, those local senior managements (local mainland chinese) are actually very impressive, comparable to anywhere in the world.
rtsang said:
Many of them were OEM done at Foxxcon, i think they are alright as an company, look after local workers well.
Re: The sticker price is misleading
They're "gaming the system". Ebay usually charges a percentage of the sold price as a fee. So to minimize this fee (and hence maximize profit), they sell the item for a low price (sometimes below cost) but charge alot for shipping and "handling". This also allows them to look like they're the least expensive when items are listed by price. It's the overall cost that you have to look at, not just the listing price. I'm sure that if you wanted local pickup you could arrange a special "handling fee" with them that would allow them to make a profit. Then you would find out the actual price of the amp.
rtsang said:
They're "gaming the system". Ebay usually charges a percentage of the sold price as a fee. So to minimize this fee (and hence maximize profit), they sell the item for a low price (sometimes below cost) but charge alot for shipping and "handling". This also allows them to look like they're the least expensive when items are listed by price. It's the overall cost that you have to look at, not just the listing price. I'm sure that if you wanted local pickup you could arrange a special "handling fee" with them that would allow them to make a profit. Then you would find out the actual price of the amp.
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