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Old 7th June 2009, 08:37 AM   #31
Arnulf is offline Arnulf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob11966
Good thread. I have just had a look at the 6CG7. I t looks like it could almost be a drop in replacement for the ECC82? Had a look at TDSL but this is not listed as the case. The heater current requirement is a bit higher, perhaps this is the reason - thoughts?
Do not rely solely on data in TDSL; it contains some mistakes (check out pin designations for PCL84 and its substitutes for example - they do not match the reality and the accompanying pinout picture).

Always check the datasheet !
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Old 7th June 2009, 06:59 PM   #32
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally posted by Rob11966
Hi Ray_moth,

I missed the center tap on the heaters (or lack thereof) in the 6CG7. Thanks.

As far as the pinout goes, if you were using the two sections of the ECC82 in parallel, then the hookup as far as the anode, cathode and grid could be left unchanged for the 6CG7. So, is the 6CG7 that much better than the ECC82 to justify the (small) effort required to rewire the heaters*?

Rob

*Assuming that the transformer has the extra kick to handle the 6CG7 heaters

Both 6CG and 6FQ7 (often quoted as equivalents although not quite identical) exist in a 12,6V heater version.
Check for total current draw though, it may well be higher than the 12AU7A. (Haven't checked myself).

There used to be a particularly good sounding Brimar ECC82 (CV449?) with black plates IIRC.
Of course there were also the boxed anode Mullards, the odd chrome(?) plated Cifte's etc.

As for the ECC80, I think I once spotted it in a Babani equivalents booklet.
May have had some pulled from old radios, not sure. Never mind.

Cheers,
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Old 8th June 2009, 06:16 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by fdegrove

There used to be a particularly good sounding Brimar ECC82 (CV449?) with black plates IIRC.
Of course there were also the boxed anode Mullards, the odd chrome(?) plated Cifte's etc.

Cheers,
Got a couple of these Brimar types and are my reference pair but sadly these don't represent the typical performance of whole group considering their continuing popularity of the brand in vendors catalogues.

ECC82; I've got alot of short anode Mazda types (practically unused NOS) and their performance inconsistancy in R/C setups is appalling and the centre values given in the Philips data sheet should run. Substituting with other ECC82 types, these Mazda by suprise give near identical gain specs. Only the thd is through the roof. It had occurred to me that these tubes may have accidentally the wrong markings and logo, but I doubt it. The gm, anode performance/ grid volts etc is sim to other ECC82's.
No wonder they were designed for TV frame stages. These I think are the worst performers and the only possible application (these days) is in a power supply.
I don't have any 6CG7; and when I get some long anode types I will suss them out. This is probably the reason that the 6SN7 has accomplished fame. By & large I get far better performance from long anode types than shorts.
The only medicine to get those rotton Mazda ECC82 to work is to CCsource and CCsink them.

Pic of short plate ECC882s heavily eroded Mazda legend. Avoid'em like the plague !

richy
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Old 28th September 2009, 07:08 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richwalters View Post
The ECC82 has figures which are sim but audio performance is horrible.
Anyone come up with other B9A's with comparable 6SN7 performance ?

richy
Hmmm,

this is 6N8S in metal base is equivalent: 6H8C, 6SN7, ECC32, 6CC10, 1578

Application: LF voltage amplification
Cathode type: oxide,indirect heating
Envelope: glass
Filament voltage,V: 6,3
Filament current,A: 0,55-0,65
Anode voltage,V: 250
Anode current,A: 0,0055-0,0115
Anode power,W: 2,75
Grid1 voltage,V: minus 8
Steepness,mA/V: 2,1-3,1
Reverse grid current,uA: 2
Microphnic noise,mV: 150
Gain: 18,0-23,0
Socket type: rsh5-1

link: 6N8S

and this is 6N1P-EV is equivalent: 6DJ8, E88CC, 6922

Type: Double triode, hi-durable, long-life
Cathode type: oxide,indirect heating
Filament voltage,V: 6,3
Filament current,A: 0,55-0,65
Anode voltage,V: 250
Anode current,A: 0,006-0,009
Anode power,W: 2,2
Steepness,mA/V: 3,8-5,1
Reverse grid current,uA: 0,2
Microphnic noise,mV: 50
Gain: 28,0-42,0
Socket type: rsh8

link: 6N1P-EV

it's little bit info, thinks it's can help you
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Old 18th April 2010, 02:48 PM   #35
miklos is offline miklos  Canada
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ECC80 were used in European radios in 1950'th.[/QUOTE]

In which function?
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Old 3rd April 2012, 02:05 AM   #36
PMik is offline PMik  United States
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Regarding ECC80 i have never! seen the type designation

btw. i do use Philips E80CC in my pre-amp

The description of an (late) 1950ś audio tube is the one of the ECC808/6KX8


The picture showing Tfk ECC80 is an Tfk ECC801S missing a digit & letter,
notice the double mica wafer and the round getter is similar in the attached Tfk 801S picture .., other possible tubes where missing print could designate them as ECC80 is the ECC808, ECC807, ECC804, ECC803S, ECC803, ECC802S..., but! they are all different regarding the two mentioned details of the build.

Hope this did solve the matter
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Old 3rd April 2012, 09:34 AM   #37
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richwalters
Pic of short plate ECC882s heavily eroded Mazda legend. Avoid'em like the plague !
Mazda brand valves with blue print are generally remarked East European manufacture; often RFT or Hungarian Tungsram.

How well ECC82's perform depends on the circuit. I did some measurements (near bottom of the page) on a simple cathode-coupled amplifier and found that ECC82 gave lowest 2nd-order and about the same 3rd-order as 6CG7 etc. In this particular circuit section-matching is the important parameter, as distortion in one triode can be partly cancelled by the other. The best performer was a US-made RCA 12AU7A. I saw no correlation between performance and anode size.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 01:10 PM   #38
miklos is offline miklos  Canada
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Thanks, good reading!
How about popular direct heated tubes and distortion?
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Old 3rd April 2012, 03:00 PM   #39
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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I have never tried DH valves. However, if everything is concentric then they should have low distortion. Given their age, size, cost and rarity there is also considerable scope for placebo effects too.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 07:00 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
Mazda brand valves with blue print are generally remarked East European manufacture; often RFT or Hungarian Tungsram.

How well ECC82's perform depends on the circuit. I did some measurements (near bottom of the page) on a simple cathode-coupled amplifier and found that ECC82 gave lowest 2nd-order and about the same 3rd-order as 6CG7 etc. In this particular circuit section-matching is the important parameter, as distortion in one triode can be partly cancelled by the other. The best performer was a US-made RCA 12AU7A. I saw no correlation between performance and anode size.
I too like a good argument.

You can note this, today I am in complete agreement with DF96. “How well ECC82's perform depends on the circuit”. From my point of view this is not just limited to ECC82’s or 12AU7’s.

The Test Circuit in the link shows parallel tubes sharing a common cathode resistor. There is a lot going on in that resistor and it is not even an active device. It ties the function of the parallel triodes. As the current through the left triode varies so does the voltage across the cathode resistor and modulates the bias of the right triode. This is not so much equal and opposite cancelation as feedback and or input to the right triode’s cathode. It cannot be equal and opposite cancelation as the triodes do not share equal plate voltage or current. They are 180 degrees out phase.

Often we speak of harmonic cancelation. I prefer the concept of a composite output characteristic curve of the overall circuit.

I am not in opposition here, perhaps a different perspective.

DT

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