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Old 7th June 2009, 01:06 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by fdegrove
Hi,

E80CC cheap? Send me some.

Well... for what it is,what it does, and what it sells for (current price) I would still call it "cheap" ,especially if you consider that for the price of a single SYLVANIA (metal base) 6SN7W or a RCA (Red Base) 5692,or MULLARD ECC33 you can buy half a dozen E80CC's.

Anyway the E80CC is a late Philips development intended for the professional user (instrumentation, studio, telephony, telegraphy etc) using boxed anodes and a pin to pin layout conform to the B9A standard.

Right,perfect description.

It's a very linear, reasonably low mu, twin triode bigger than a 12BH7A that CAN be used as a drop in replacement for a ECC82.
It will sound different from the original ECC82 when used as a replacement for that valve but then it should.

Sure, it will often make that circuit sound better but it would be better still if the anode load and cathode resistors were to be adjusted to properly accomodate this valve.

I fully agree with this.

While I can understand the enthusiasm for this E80CC, it really shouldn't be considered as a drop in replacement for the humble (and mediocre) ECC82/12AU7-A.

Sure It Isn't ,some circuit adjustments will be needed to compensate for the different tube parameters. Definitely not a 12AU7 "Plug and Play" sub, though it MAY work...

And yes, more bad news, there was an ECC80 but it nothing in common with either the ECC82 nor the E80CC....

AFAIK there never was a ECC80 and I've never seen this reference listed in any Tube databooks or databases. Maybe an obscure BRIMAR tube ? Or a current "new" fancy (unregistered) reference like the ECC99 ? No ECC80's to be found in the TDSL database neither...
Ciao,
Bye...
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Old 7th June 2009, 02:27 AM   #22
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Quote:
American government invented taxes on enclosed vacuum to force an industry to make smaller tubes for computers,
I never heard of this, and can't find any reference to it on the internet either. If this was true, CRT's must have been the deal breaker.

Miniature tubes were the natural evolution octal tubes. This came because of the constant desire to make stuff smaller. A lot of miniaturization began in aircraft electronics, and the ever increasing RF frequencies used in avionics forced the use of smaller tubes.
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Old 7th June 2009, 02:31 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wavebourn


As I said, as soon as American government invented taxes on enclosed vacuum to force an industry to make smaller tubes for computers, octal tubes were considered as obsoleted all around the world, and miniature replacements were designed and offered. Among them, Philips offered ECC80 to replace 6SN7. SOviet engineers made 6N1P. Yes, tolerances of Russian manufacturing are out of question, I myself worked in a team that restored QC measurement equipment when a Ministry comission demanded from the head of the plant to restore it.

Tolerances of RCA tubes were incredible, even thouigh Telefunken was known as the flagman of tight tolerances.

Click the image to open in full size.

Neither 6N1P, nor ECC80 are direct replacements for 6SN7; they were designed to replace them in new designs

This is new to me... Could you quote your source ? I've never actually seen or heard of a ECC80. This reference is not listed in any Tube Databooks or databases. (No ECC80's listed in the TDSL database neither). Just checked in my huge PHILIPS tube library and no ECC80's can be found. Not a RMA (or other) registered reference neither. Not a trace of the ECC80 in my Tube Encyclopedia or the BRANS Vade-Mecum. The E80CC is an exception,as it doesn't adhere to the (European) code reversal scheme for designing special quality versions of common receiving tubes. (e.g: ECC82/E82CC , etc...). There are a few other exemples like the E90CC and E92CC where the code reversal system doesn't apply. As Frank rightly pointed out, a ECC80 (if it exist) will have nothing in common with the E80CC and is a completely different tube. This doesn't mean a ECC80 didn't exist ,but it must have been the result of some obscure rebranding of an unknow tube. I still need to see one. BTW, your 1st picture looks to me like a nice TELEFUNKEN ECC801S (with the "1" faded or not visible) ,definitely not a ECC80.
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Old 7th June 2009, 03:03 AM   #24
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http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...5TtvT7tYZSfiTA

Since ECC80 can't replace 6SN7 where more rugged 6SN7 was used so designers kept using the original instead of the "replacement", a special version E80CC was introduced.

For Soviet computers 6N6P was developed because 6N1P was too weak for fast switching applications.

ECC80 were used in European radios in 1950'th.
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Old 7th June 2009, 03:19 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by tubelab.com


I never heard of this, and can't find any reference to it on the internet either. If this was true, CRT's must have been the deal breaker.
I tried to find in Google, but can't, though I remember well learning in the university how a government can force manufacturers to follow directions. Also I remember similar regulations in Germany, about tax on number of tube sockets, so many devices including resistors were enclosed in the single tube envelope.
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Old 7th June 2009, 04:33 AM   #26
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Hi Richy,

Good thread. I have just had a look at the 6CG7. I t looks like it could almost be a drop in replacement for the ECC82? Had a look at TDSL but this is not listed as the case. The heater current requirement is a bit higher, perhaps this is the reason - thoughts?

Rob
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Old 7th June 2009, 05:30 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wavebourn
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...5TtvT7tYZSfiTA

This is again the same picture showing a TELEFUNKEN ECC801S (with a faded "1") , definitely NOT a ECC80

Since ECC80 can't replace 6SN7 where more rugged 6SN7 was used so designers kept using the original instead of the "replacement", a special version E80CC was introduced.

Very doubtful and unverifiable.Where did you got this info ? Not a single mention of the ECC80 can be found on the web (try to google it) or in any written reference. (Tube databooks) Any links ?

For Soviet computers 6N6P was developed because 6N1P was too weak for fast switching applications.

No idea, I'm no expert in Russian tubes.


ECC80 were used in European radios in 1950'th.

NEVER. Give me ONE exemple. (Brand and model) I'm from Europe, have collected and repaired hundreds of old radios , and have never seen a ECC80 in them. You must confuse with ECF80.
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Old 7th June 2009, 05:58 AM   #28
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Hi Tubologic;
I believe you are not an expert in Russian tubes, but I am. I learned the history of an electronics industry worldwide, in late 70'th among other things (is Tomsk in Europe?). My specialty was design and manufacturing of radio and electronics equipment. And it is what I am doing now, after a break when I switched to software development and design of networked computer systems. I am not a scholar, I don't research the history in the Net and in libraries; I shared with you what I was taught about tubes, when they were still manufactured and widely used, so I can't give you references, sorry.
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Old 7th June 2009, 07:35 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob11966
I have just had a look at the 6CG7. I t looks like it could almost be a drop in replacement for the ECC82? Had a look at TDSL but this is not listed as the case. The heater current requirement is a bit higher, perhaps this is the reason - thoughts?
Rob
Main differences that make them non-substitutes:

* different characteristics- the 6CG7 is a much better tube for audio, being more linear;

*.different heater current ratings;

* different pin-outs;

* the presence of an internal shield in the 6CG7;

* the 12.6v center-tapped heater of the 12AU7, requiring use of different pin connections for 6.3v operation.
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Old 7th June 2009, 07:48 AM   #30
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Hi Ray_moth,

I missed the center tap on the heaters (or lack thereof) in the 6CG7. Thanks.

As far as the pinout goes, if you were using the two sections of the ECC82 in parallel, then the hookup as far as the anode, cathode and grid could be left unchanged for the 6CG7. So, is the 6CG7 that much better than the ECC82 to justify the (small) effort required to rewire the heaters*?

Rob

*Assuming that the transformer has the extra kick to handle the 6CG7 heaters
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