How can a resistor "sound" good? - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Tubes / Valves

Tubes / Valves All about our sweet vacuum tubes :) Threads about Musical Instrument Amps of all kinds should be in the Instruments & Amps forum

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 31st May 2009, 10:49 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
oldmanStrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Default How can a resistor "sound" good?

I was looking at the Musical Machine and in the parts description the author talks about how it's important to have high quality resistors because it affects the sound.

How? It's a resistor... some kind of heating effect that changes the resistance? Possibly inductance if it is a wire wound?

Just curious, it's the first time I've heard that resistors can effect the sound...
__________________
For security reasons my name is changed daily...
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st June 2009, 12:18 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Adelaide South Oz
We are mostly talking about noise performance. Thermal noise proportional to the resistance value is introduced by a resistor. Carbon Composition are much worse compared to metal film and wire wound are better than metal film.
The other thing we see is that Carbon Film resistors have a voltage dependency. That is, their resistance changes with voltage across the resistor. This introduces some second harmonic distortion. Rikken Ohms do this. If the amp has too much 3rd and other odd order distortion then addition of a carbon film resistor to add some 2nd harmonic just may make the amp sound better, by masking / balancing some of the odd harmonic distortion. (Of-course it would have been better to find what was causing the excess odd harmonic distortion and fix that instead).
Cheers,
Ian
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st June 2009, 01:17 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
HollowState's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Taxland, New Jersey
Default Re: How can a resistor "sound" good?

Quote:
Originally posted by oldmanStrat

How? It's a resistor...
Just curious, it's the first time I've heard that resistors can effect the sound...
Quote:
Originally posted by gingertube
We are mostly talking about noise performance. Thermal noise proportional to the resistance value is introduced by a resistor. Carbon Composition are much worse compared to metal film and wire wound are better than metal film.
This is mostly true. However, it is curious to remember that all the old RCA Living Stereo and Mercury Living Presence recordings of the 50's and 60's, that golden eared audiophiles swoon over for their glorious sound quality, were produced on equipment that was filled with carbon composition resistors. That's all they used, with the possible exception of the very lowest level input stage where you might find a wire-wound plate resistor.

It's also been my experience that metal film resistors will provide an increase in high frequence response over carbon comps when used directly in the signal path.
__________________
"It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong." ~Thomas Sowell
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st June 2009, 01:35 AM   #4
ccschua is offline ccschua  Malaysia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
What Ian says is quite true as I have just tried with tweaking Riken resistors in tube amp. However too many of these resistors will sound 'color'. I have used Rien to grid stoppers and feedback resistors and quite happy with it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st June 2009, 01:57 AM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Quote:
Originally posted by ccschua
What Ian says is quite true as I have just tried with tweaking Riken resistors in tube amp. However too many of these resistors will sound 'color'. I have used Rien to grid stoppers and feedback resistors and quite happy with it.
Feedback resistors? Happy with introducing distortions? Did you try diodes in feedback?
__________________
The Devil is not so terrible as his math model is!
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st June 2009, 02:04 AM   #6
ccschua is offline ccschua  Malaysia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Feedback resistors - Second harmonic feedback ? Yes , no?
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st June 2009, 03:27 AM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Quote:
Originally posted by ccschua
Feedback resistors - Second harmonic feedback ? Yes , no?
If no DC bias distortions are symmetrical. That means, no even harmonics in them.
__________________
The Devil is not so terrible as his math model is!
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st June 2009, 03:34 AM   #8
gallon is offline gallon  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Madtown
Quote:
Originally posted by gingertube
...
The other thing we see is that Carbon Film resistors have a voltage dependency. That is, their resistance changes with voltage across the resistor. This introduces some second harmonic distortion. Rikken Ohms do this. If the amp has too much 3rd and other odd order distortion then addition of a carbon film resistor to add some 2nd harmonic just may make the amp sound better, by masking / balancing some of the odd harmonic distortion. (Of-course it would have been better to find what was causing the excess odd harmonic distortion and fix that instead).
Cheers,
Ian

Long ago I saw an Allen Bradley data sheet showing a severe vcr for their carbon composition resistors. Wish I could find that again.

Gary
__________________
Those who fail to remember history are um
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st June 2009, 03:40 AM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canandaigua, NY USA
Resistors have their well known characteristics like temperature coefficient, voltage coefficient, stray capacitance and inductance. You can compare them based on those parameters and make definite statements that are reproducible by others. IMHO, the accounts of resistors being responsible for variations in sound are so contradictory and sometimes contrary to what resistors are known to affect, that I can only take them as audio myth and lore. There may be a few applications like critical locations in tube amps where some valid generalizations could be made. Or not. In any case, I try to build with stable quality parts having as low a TC, VC and other secondary effects, as is practical, but you won't find $10 resistors in anything I build other than lab standards type equipment like voltage references or precision dividers.
__________________
I may be barking up the wrong tree, but at least I'm barking!
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st June 2009, 03:41 AM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
It's strange thing but it's a few years since the Ellen bradley resistors were available, particularly the 1/2 watt ones - today, it's only the higher 2 watt ones that appear on eBay - the 1/2 watters seem to have completely dissapeared and are only available at boutique sites at a couple $s each.
It seems that Rikken, as you use, is the modern substitute, and not cheap either!
__________________
... jh
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Linear voltage regulator: how to make good use of "sense" and "ground sense"? NeoY2k Analog Line Level 7 6th September 2008 11:35 PM
600 ohm resistor between "+" and "-" of balanced inputs. skpb Analog Line Level 3 20th October 2006 12:38 PM
Anyone heard of "in-rush" limiter resistor andy2 Tubes / Valves 14 31st March 2006 02:39 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:50 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2