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Old 8th October 2012, 02:39 AM   #81
ChrisA is offline ChrisA  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewP View Post
...someone who was of the opinion that tubes sounded wooly due to distortion...
The opinion that "tubes sounded wooly due to distortion" is nearly universal among guitar players. The effect is obviously real and easy to hear.

But you are right. Tubes don't really have a "sound" in most HiFi amps. In fact a Dynco ST70 and a Gainclone "chip amp" sound so much like each other that only a few experts can notice any difference by listening. (By looking it is easy.)
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Old 8th October 2012, 05:38 AM   #82
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Well at least it no longer reads like it was written by anti-tube trolls.. Reads a lot better than I remember it.
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Old 9th February 2013, 01:38 PM   #83
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Question Ok now, but how good should it be?

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Originally Posted by kevinkr View Post
Well at least it no longer reads like it was written by anti-tube trolls.. Reads a lot better than I remember it.
Although there is still quite much babble about side issues, I think that the article is already rather good.
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Old 9th February 2013, 07:34 PM   #84
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Accepted revisions of the article demonstrate author's learning curve. Let's wait some more 10 years to see it in the compact and strict form easy to read and understand. ;-)
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Old 28th August 2013, 08:19 PM   #85
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Cool Not ready but rather good

I think that the article covers the main factors of tube sound, which are (in my opinion) output impedance, negative feedback and soft clipping. The article does not emphasize them any way, so a reader must decide what is important.
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Old 2nd September 2013, 09:43 AM   #86
teemuk is offline teemuk  Finland
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Quote:
Well at least it no longer reads like it was written by anti-tube trolls..
Yep, it reads like being written by tube fetishists.

After all these years the article still hasn't been deleted and claims like (high) "output impedance" (lack of) "negative feedback" and "soft clipping" being tube amplifier characteristics are still being made?

Why? These could just as well be characteristics of a transistor amplifier circuit designed somewhat differently than the norm and there are several occasions when tube amplifiers introduce none or only few of those characteristics.

Great example why wikipedia articles should have a big warning sign preceding of them:
"These articles are possibly written and 'peer-reviewed' by random amateurs. DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU READ FROM THIS ARTICLE!"

Last edited by teemuk; 2nd September 2013 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 5th September 2013, 07:14 PM   #87
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Arrow It is Wikipedia as usual

Quote:
Originally Posted by teemuk View Post

After all these years the article still hasn't been deleted and claims like (high) "output impedance" (lack of) "negative feedback" and "soft clipping" being tube amplifier characteristics are still being made?

Why?
Aren't they quite typical properties of tube amplifiers? If that is a fact, I can not see a problem there.

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Originally Posted by teemuk View Post

These could just as well be characteristics of a transistor amplifier circuit designed somewhat differently than the norm and there are several occasions when tube amplifiers introduce none or only few of those characteristics.
Could be and sometimes they are. I could show some examples and actually some of them have been mentioned in the article. But those are not typical properties of modern solid state amplifiers. Do you agree?

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Originally Posted by teemuk View Post

Great example why wikipedia articles should have a big warning sign preceding of them:
"These articles are possibly written and 'peer-reviewed' by random amateurs. DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU READ FROM THIS ARTICLE!"
If you found errors, correcting them is always an option.

Could you explain your attitude more?
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Old 5th September 2013, 07:23 PM   #88
TheGimp is offline TheGimp  United States
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Considering the growing popularity of SET amplifiers, I would agree that many of those characteristics are in fact accurate.

In fact they apply equally to PP tube amplifiers which do not use negative feedback as well. Although, they are in a minority compared to the number of PP amps utilizing GNFB or local NFB.
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Old 6th September 2013, 09:19 AM   #89
teemuk is offline teemuk  Finland
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Quote:
But those are not typical properties of modern solid state amplifiers.
I have dealt a lot with both vintage and modern solid-state guitar and bass guitar amplifiers and I can assure you, in those they are very typical properties.

Yes, they are not that typical in high fidelity designs, for obvious reasons. With that said, the very same properties are quite atypical also for high fidelity tube amplifiers, for obvious reasons.

I fail to see how this nothing but strenghtens the point that there really isn't such a thing as "tube sound".

Quote:
Do you agree?
No. The article mainly tries to present generalisations as facts. So do you.

And that's the main problem.

Even the very first reference in that article blatantly contradicts that there is a single, quantifyable thing known as "tube sound".

I do agree that many of the variables outlined in that article can introduce certain electrical behaviour of a circuit which consequently produces certain archetypal sounds inherent to such circuit. I cannot agree that those variables are properties of tube amplifiers alone (nor that they even exist in all tube amplifiers) and that makes the entire concept of tube amplifiers having some particular "sound" somewhat moot.

Last edited by teemuk; 6th September 2013 at 09:41 AM.
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