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Old 30th July 2009, 12:26 AM   #31
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Arrow I recommend this

Quote:
Originally posted by Wavebourn

I agree, it would be better to eraze it at all.
I disagree and I have a better idea. I'll explain:
[list=1][*]Find paragraphs or sentences that are nonsense, outright lies or dubious.[*]See if they are without sources, like they usually are.[*]Tag those dubious sentences with appropriate tags.[*]Give the original contributors some time (like month or two) to find the asked sources. Probably they won't find, but it is nice to give them some time. [*]What was left without sources, delete or otherwise correct them.[*]See if someone is not happy. Discuss about changes.[/list=1] That is the way of contributing I recommend.
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Old 30th July 2009, 04:42 PM   #32
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Default Re: Re: Would you?

Quote:
Originally posted by 45


It is true that the quality of magnetic materials for transformers was not good as today but this was not a problem at all.
Until the birth of the stereo LP (with high quality MC cartridges) the limits came all from the sources.

45

This is the cue; a famous grammy award engineer/designer made fame from producing studio consoles which used transformers for both in and out. quote " they rounded the sound off". So it would seem equal competition for either tube/valve or solid state HiFi amp design on the conditions that a signal or output transformer is used in the design. Unfortunately several decades of solid state amp design avoided iron and in most cases their distortion signature is often lower than a valve/tube amp but somehow the sound, sounds different.
Eh ? true. It's all in that silicon iron.

2nd harmonic thd isn't objectionable, below 100Hz it gives more artifical bass for smaller speakers.

richy
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Old 30th July 2009, 06:22 PM   #33
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Heh-heh...
Binksternet (talk | contribs) m (31,905 bytes) (Reverted 9 edits by 76.239.177.86 identified as vandalism to last revision by Uikku.


As you may see, the article again is concentrated on "specific distortions added by tubes".

Congratulations!
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Old 30th July 2009, 11:36 PM   #34
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Unhappy They really do.

Quote:
Originally posted by Wavebourn
Heh-heh...
Binksternet (talk | contribs) m (31,905 bytes) (Reverted 9 edits by 76.239.177.86 identified as vandalism to last revision by Uikku.


As you may see, the article again is concentrated on "specific distortions added by tubes".

I see. That's what deletionists usually do.

Birds fly, fish swim, horses run, scorpions sting and deletionists delete.
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Old 31st July 2009, 02:19 AM   #35
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Default Re: They really do.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nikolas Ojala


I see. That's what deletionists usually do.

Birds fly, fish swim, horses run, scorpions sting and deletionists delete.

That's why I gave up contributing to Wiki. It's set of views of people who have nothing to do but write own opinions on walls.
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Old 31st July 2009, 04:47 AM   #36
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Is it possible to delete the entire article as it is based on an unproven
and unprovable premise, i.e. that vacuum tubes have "a sound"?

Then we can write an article on "transistor sound" full of citations of
what "some people say" ;-)

Really it should just be deleted... It's an editorial, in other words it's
an opinion piece!

PS I have another idea. I can set up a microphone in a quiet room and
record thwacking an Eimac 4-65A, making a nice hollow ringing sound.
We can then replace the entire article with an example of a real tube sound.
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Old 31st July 2009, 05:16 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Koster

PS I have another idea. I can set up a microphone in a quiet room and
record thwacking an Eimac 4-65A, making a nice hollow ringing sound.
We can then replace the entire article with an example of a real tube sound.
Like, "Smell our roses through your gas mask!"
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Old 31st July 2009, 07:05 AM   #38
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The other thing worth consideration is that in a number of cases, the euphony of "tube sound" has been deliberately exploited in order to modify the behavior of hifi equipment (the main cases I can think of being to warm the sound of digital hardware).

Examples include the Luxman mid fi CD players of the early 1990's (I think there were three in the series) the Musical Fidelity CDT "Frog" CD player, I think the California Audio Labs Tempest CD would also qualify.

Much as we'd like to claim it ain't so, some audio products use specific aspects of the non accurate behaviour of tubes used in a certain configuration to add "tube sound".

Heck, anyone who has spent time tube rolling between brands or swapping similar based output tubes to balance the sound of an amp to their particular tastes is using "tube sound". If we're purely tube rolling, we can't claim that the audible changes come as a result of the circuit topology, because that's one thing we aren't changing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in agreement that the original article was a travesty of half informed opinion masquerading as fact and is probably better off in the bin as it adds little to nothing to the global knowledge pool, but there are a few nuggets of truth about "tube sound" (egads, even the term sounds deeply flawed!) in there.
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Old 31st July 2009, 03:31 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrewP
The other thing worth consideration is that in a number of cases, the euphony of "tube sound" has been deliberately exploited in order to modify the behavior of hifi equipment (the main cases I can think of being to warm the sound of digital hardware).

Examples include the Luxman mid fi CD players of the early 1990's (I think there were three in the series) the Musical Fidelity CDT "Frog" CD player, I think the California Audio Labs Tempest CD would also qualify.

Much as we'd like to claim it ain't so, some audio products use specific aspects of the non accurate behaviour of tubes used in a certain configuration to add "tube sound".

Heck, anyone who has spent time tube rolling between brands or swapping similar based output tubes to balance the sound of an amp to their particular tastes is using "tube sound". If we're purely tube rolling, we can't claim that the audible changes come as a result of the circuit topology, because that's one thing we aren't changing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in agreement that the original article was a travesty of half informed opinion masquerading as fact and is probably better off in the bin as it adds little to nothing to the global knowledge pool, but there are a few nuggets of truth about "tube sound" (egads, even the term sounds deeply flawed!) in there.

I don't think the truth nuggets can be separated from the moose nuggets; even if one were successful there would not be much of an
article left to stand on it's own.

"Some guitarists prefer the sound of tube amps and they describe it
as follows:"

"some designers have used tubes to add obvious sound coloration to
their products"

"In some circuits, some tubes sound different from others"

Very similar assertions may be made about transistors.

I thought Wikipedia was supposed to contain helpful facts.
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Old 31st July 2009, 05:35 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Koster

I thought Wikipedia was supposed to contain helpful facts.
It reminds me an old joke, "If you are not satisfied by our service please write on a chalkboard of complains and suggestions"
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