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Old 8th April 2003, 09:31 PM   #11
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Joe,
Thank you....more real good information!

Do you know what are the electrical characteristics of the panels..the load...that the amp is trying to drive? I assumed that someone must have characterized them. Does it make more sense to do what SY is doing...design from the ground up and hopefully be able to obtain parts a little easier?

I have to confess that I love my 'stats. the combination of the NAK mics in and the Acoustats out were wonderful when I was doing live recording and during that time I was exclusively using the III's. It may be irrational but I definitley wan to get back to just that...Tube driven Acoustats...preferably another set of III's.

I appreciate your sharing your expertise.
rt
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Old 8th April 2003, 10:02 PM   #12
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Do you know what are the electrical characteristics of the panels..the load...that the amp is trying to drive? I assumed that someone must have characterized them. Does it make more sense to do what SY is doing...design from the ground up and hopefully be able to obtain parts a little easier?

I did have the panel info at one time but after two moves including one cross country move, those documents became one of the data loss casulities of the moving company. But the panels bias at 5KV. If I were designing an amp from scratch I'd use the original output stage but set it up with PL-509's. Establish the bias operating points and insert a fixed or auto bias circuit. You can then cap couple a reasonably good push pull driver stage (e.g. tube) into it.

Getting parts may prove to be difficult - high quality HV C's and R's are not plentiful on the DIY market.
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Old 8th April 2003, 10:13 PM   #13
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Default going to have to meditate on all this

Lots to think about...probably need some wine to lubricate my mind.

Joe, I appreciate the help!

SY...please let me know how your project moves along...

I appreciate the insight!

rt
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Old 8th April 2003, 10:22 PM   #14
SY is offline SY  United States
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rt: Part 1 (The Frames) will get posted in the next few days. The DD amp may take a little longer; as Joe points out, parts acquisition is always an issue, though the surplus ham market can be quite rewarding. My goal is to use easy-to-get and reliable stuff as much as possible.

Joe: I sympathize. As many cross-country moves as I've made, I must have left quite a trail of papers and books. I have in mind a rather different output stage loading than the original (or that I've seen before). Is there any chance you'd be willing to discuss it privately with me and critique it before I publish?

BTW, we did cross paths many years ago, through the graces of Murray Zeligman. I'm still using some of the regulator boards you designed at that time, with FET current sources pulling across a resistor as the voltage reference.
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Old 8th April 2003, 10:29 PM   #15
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Default TU-BE OR NOT TU-BE.

Hi,

Quote:
BTW, we did cross paths many years ago, through the graces of Murray Zeligman.
Small world, isn't it?

It keeps on striking me that quite a few of us have met in real life without really realising it.

Cheers,
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Old 8th April 2003, 10:38 PM   #16
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Murray's place was where you would run across anyone and everyone. Dave Berning, Ike Eisenson, Tony Cordesman, Allen Edelstein, Gordon Holt, Lew Johnson... Though our philosophies and paths have diverged, the years I spent working with him were incredibly valuable. I've heard some of the Nova speakers he's designed recently and I have to say he hasn't lost his touch.
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Old 9th April 2003, 03:23 PM   #17
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Joe: I sympathize. As many cross-country moves as I've made, I must have left quite a trail of papers and books. I have in mind a rather different output stage loading than the original (or that I've seen before). Is there any chance you'd be willing to discuss it privately with me and critique it before I publish?

Sure. I notice you're in Napa Valley - I'm in the South Bay. Just show up (call ahead) with a bottle or two of a fine Merlot and we can discuss your design all day. Or just feel free to call anytime.

Murray's place was where you would run across anyone and everyone. Dave Berning, Ike Eisenson, Tony Cordesman, Allen Edelstein, Gordon Holt, Lew Johnson... Though our philosophies and paths have diverged, the years I spent working with him were incredibly valuable. I've heard some of the Nova speakers he's designed recently and I have to say he hasn't lost his touch

I haven't seen Murray in about 10 years - maybe more. Nonetheless, I have never met anyone that had both his vast knowledge and ability to think beyond any biases. Murray was open to any approach. He never got bogged down with "the perfect component" (e.g. brand A magic capacitor) or single "best circuit topology" (e.g. SSRP). All components are imperfect, some more than others, but the best are only variations on a theme. He had a profound impact on my work and opened my thinking to recognize that the most musically successful and enjoyable designs deploy not only well engineered topologies but need to be supported with carefully chosen components to achieve the most truthful and musical result.
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Old 9th April 2003, 03:34 PM   #18
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Default ...truth writ large...

Joe,

Quote:
... and opened my thinking to recognize that the most musically successful and enjoyable designs deploy not only well engineered topologies but need to be supported with carefully chosen components to achieve the most truthful and musical result.
That is the most beautifully phrased expression of audio engineering that I have ever read.

Many thanks

James
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Old 10th April 2003, 02:56 PM   #19
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Hi all again,

I just asked for a schematic, I didn't hope to generate a so exciting and impressive discussion. It seems to me that a so deep knowledge and experience should not be losen, but it could be useful and beautiful to collect it and to share it with less expert people, like me, for instance.
I'd like to promote a challenge, whose results could be very interesting to a lot of people. Here it is. By your very deep experience, why not design and project a complete system (amp + ESL ), "state of the art", sharing all your knowledge and suggestions? It is my opinion the results could be amazing.

By the way (this is for everybody reading, but especially for SY), my area is full of delicious wines (red like Merlot, Cabernet, Franconia, Pinot, etc.; white like Tokaj, Riesling, Traminer, Pinot, etc.). If you want I try to organize a special ESL convention, here I am at disposal.

Cheers

Milo
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