Me? I'm not familiar with the Living Stereo mixer. But years ago I built a dual channel (stereo) mixer with three inputs each. I used the first cascade stage (line input) from the Ampex 351 recorder found here for each of the six inputs. It was for use with low impedance mikes and the input transformers were UTC HA-100Xs. Although A-11s, or similar, would have worked just as well. These were a lot cheaper back in the late 60's and I happened to already have them. Today, perhaps Lundahls or the Ampex octal plug-in types would be more economical.
I used unregulated, but well filtered, DC for the filaments, shock mounted tube sockets and Alan Bradley 2W pots on the output of each channel for summing along with a larger output capacitor to preserve base. This was for field recording and was always next to the recorder so no low impedance output (transformer) was needed. Your needs might be different.
Victor
I used unregulated, but well filtered, DC for the filaments, shock mounted tube sockets and Alan Bradley 2W pots on the output of each channel for summing along with a larger output capacitor to preserve base. This was for field recording and was always next to the recorder so no low impedance output (transformer) was needed. Your needs might be different.
Victor
ncdrawl said:
That's an interesting question. The reason being I thought I did. Sometime in the past I went looking for it and couldn't find it. Then later I tried finding it again and still could not. I know I never sold it or took it apart for the transformers. At some point I wondered if it was left at someone's home where I was recording with it. But that was a long time ago from a faded memory. If I still have it, it's hiding.
It was housed in a wooden cabinet (19x7x10) that was covered in black vinyl with chrome corners and had six HH Smith skirted knobs across the front panel. I wish I knew where it was 'cause it's a long lost old friend.
Victor
ncdrawl said:
Was there one? I have always understood that the early recordings were either 2 or 3 channel and went directly from the mics to mic pre-amplifiers to recorder electronics with no mixing of any sort involved.
Post recording mix down from 3 channel to 2 channel stereo was probably accomplished with a very simple mixing set up that summed the center into the left/right channels or may even have been ignored in some cases? Reportedly the center channel was used for producing the mono recordings as well.
It would be really nice to know exactly what was done and at what point in the recording process...
I am just getting into live recording, and while I am unlikely to copy vintage designs for my electronics I am also curious.. Old Ampex gear generally had quite good microphone pre-amplifiers.
I'm thinking more along of the lines of transformer coupled I/O with tubes like the D3A or 5842 providing the required mic gain.. Have not thought about mixing yet..
I'm thinking more along of the lines of transformer coupled I/O with tubes like the D3A or 5842 providing the required mic gain.. Have not thought about mixing yet..
Re: Re: anyone ever built a tube mixer similar to the RCA Living Stereo type??
That's what I thought too. I've never heard of a "Living Stereo" mixer.
When I was in my twenties I was really into Ampex tape machines. Because of this, that is the way I chose to go for my purpose built mixer to record local bands and musician friends. If I were to do it over again I'd probably use different tubes this time around, but would keep the high quality input transformers. (I know a little bit more now) I hand built two transports (plus electronics) back then not being able to even afford used units. All I needed to buy was the stainless skim plate for physical layout, some UMC (Beau) motors, a puck wheel and an empty head assembly for Nortronics heads.
The Ampex tube electronics go for really crazy money on fee-bay these days as mike preamps. But most of the electronics in them becomes wasted. And they're filled with carbon comp resistors, old foil capacitors and 12AX7/12AU7 tubes that have been frowned upon by the DIY nay-sayers. Yet these electronics produced some of the most valued recordings.
kevinkr said:
That's what I thought too. I've never heard of a "Living Stereo" mixer.
kevinkr said:
When I was in my twenties I was really into Ampex tape machines. Because of this, that is the way I chose to go for my purpose built mixer to record local bands and musician friends. If I were to do it over again I'd probably use different tubes this time around, but would keep the high quality input transformers. (I know a little bit more now) I hand built two transports (plus electronics) back then not being able to even afford used units. All I needed to buy was the stainless skim plate for physical layout, some UMC (Beau) motors, a puck wheel and an empty head assembly for Nortronics heads.
The Ampex tube electronics go for really crazy money on fee-bay these days as mike preamps. But most of the electronics in them becomes wasted. And they're filled with carbon comp resistors, old foil capacitors and 12AX7/12AU7 tubes that have been frowned upon by the DIY nay-sayers. Yet these electronics produced some of the most valued recordings.
From a few things I remember...
The controls were constant impedance, L-PAD style, thus not disturbing the loading....
They also used a transformer to blend the Center-Channel into the L and R sides.... It was done with a Phase shifting transformer to avoid cancellations....
Webster Hall in NYC was one of the famous locations for RCA recordings in the 1950's and early 1960's.....
I had a professor who had worked for RCA in those days....He designed vacuum tubes mostly improved them and was also involved with recording...pretty amazing...
Chris
The controls were constant impedance, L-PAD style, thus not disturbing the loading....
They also used a transformer to blend the Center-Channel into the L and R sides.... It was done with a Phase shifting transformer to avoid cancellations....
Webster Hall in NYC was one of the famous locations for RCA recordings in the 1950's and early 1960's.....
I had a professor who had worked for RCA in those days....He designed vacuum tubes mostly improved them and was also involved with recording...pretty amazing...
Chris
cerrem said:
Does sound quite interesting!
IMO I suspect what we think of as a modern mixing board arrived about the same time as the first 8 track studio recorders. (Very late 1960s - early 1970s) Earlier affairs driving 4 track recorders seem to have been quite primitive by today's standards..
the only vintage RCA mixer circuit I can think of is this one (page 23)
http://www.pmillett.com/file_downloads/RCA_HiFi.pdf
allows you to sum two channels. And a hat-tip for Pete Millet for posting so many books and manuals.
http://www.pmillett.com/file_downloads/RCA_HiFi.pdf
allows you to sum two channels. And a hat-tip for Pete Millet for posting so many books and manuals.
Boy, my historical recall is fading... but there were two top-notch recording teams back in the 50's.... RCA and Mercury (in the USA that is).
Lewis Layton was the recording engineer for RCA that did the Living Stereo recordings which followed their Monaural recordings. Richard Mohr was his producer and Anthony Salvatore was the other half of his team, IIRC. I'm not sure who did the mastering to disc however.
Bob Fine was the recording engineer for Mercury that did the Living Presence recordings, also following their Monaural recordings. Bob has George Piros, who was the mastering wizard who put it on disc. Also note that Bob and George did the Command Series of records with Enoch Light... my Dad had most of these and loved them... 35mm film recording with sprockets!
I'm pretty certain neither (team) used any mixers... just direct tracks into the tape machine. I think it was Mercury (Bob Fine) that did a 3-channel recording to an Ampex machine with a Mic setup they nicknamed the "Christ Pole" as it had the 3 mics spaced with the center one up a bit higher (simulating Christ on the cross with left and right sinners).
In any case, I don't think anyone has quite exceeded the work of these two miraculous recording teams since. The Chesky brothers succeeded in gaining access to the RCA tape vaults many years ago and brought the Living Stereo stuff back... while Wilma (Cozart) Fine, Bob's widow, was responsible for much of Mercury's living presence recordings coming back.
But in any case... no mixers, direct as possible to the tape machine. When I was involved in doing live recordings in the 70's we used a pair of EV tube mics with outboard power supplies... these were fed directly into a Crown half-track machine that we had tweaked in the shop... nice setup... wish I had it now... I can't recall who we used to do the mastering to disc however.... it was sent out.
Sorry I digressed.... the late 50's was the golden age of audio... maybe we'll get back someday ;-)
Regards, KM
Lewis Layton was the recording engineer for RCA that did the Living Stereo recordings which followed their Monaural recordings. Richard Mohr was his producer and Anthony Salvatore was the other half of his team, IIRC. I'm not sure who did the mastering to disc however.
Bob Fine was the recording engineer for Mercury that did the Living Presence recordings, also following their Monaural recordings. Bob has George Piros, who was the mastering wizard who put it on disc. Also note that Bob and George did the Command Series of records with Enoch Light... my Dad had most of these and loved them... 35mm film recording with sprockets!
I'm pretty certain neither (team) used any mixers... just direct tracks into the tape machine. I think it was Mercury (Bob Fine) that did a 3-channel recording to an Ampex machine with a Mic setup they nicknamed the "Christ Pole" as it had the 3 mics spaced with the center one up a bit higher (simulating Christ on the cross with left and right sinners).
In any case, I don't think anyone has quite exceeded the work of these two miraculous recording teams since. The Chesky brothers succeeded in gaining access to the RCA tape vaults many years ago and brought the Living Stereo stuff back... while Wilma (Cozart) Fine, Bob's widow, was responsible for much of Mercury's living presence recordings coming back.
But in any case... no mixers, direct as possible to the tape machine. When I was involved in doing live recordings in the 70's we used a pair of EV tube mics with outboard power supplies... these were fed directly into a Crown half-track machine that we had tweaked in the shop... nice setup... wish I had it now... I can't recall who we used to do the mastering to disc however.... it was sent out.
Sorry I digressed.... the late 50's was the golden age of audio... maybe we'll get back someday ;-)
Regards, KM
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