upgrade transformer?

[ipop07]

hi,
ok i tried asking this on another forum but ive been refered to this one. I am not sure if this is the right area of the forum for this but if its not, mod please feel free to move it and i appolagize.

So i am trying to find out what are the differences between a drop in replacement o/t p/t and an upgrade. but not the effects but the cause. And what i mean by that is: what needs to be different electrically or construction wise from the drop in replacement in order to have an upgrade. and more specific, what about the construction of a transformer or electrical specs makes the amp better for distortion or for a cleaner clearer sound....thanks

[koolatron]

My shot in the dark, here:

The money figure in a typical transformer of any type, be it power or output, is iron. Transformers are, in the end, mostly heavy metal, and the more of the stuff in a given transformer, the more expensive it is likely to be.

Heavier, however, is not always necessarily better. If your circuit only consumes N watts, then getting a power transformer capable of supplying N*10 watts doesn't make an awful lot of sense. You will almost certainly end up with a much cooler-running transformer, but unless you're making love to the thing a little heat is probably just fine.

On the output transformer side of things, it's a little bit different. The waters are considerably muddier - mostly because there are subjective (and sometimes objective) differences in audio quality that follow directly from physical transformer characteristics. Minimally, however, we come back to the same problem as before with the power transformer: If your circuit outputs N watts, a transformer capable of handling N*10 watts just fine, but rather silly and potentially wasteful.

Others on this forum will probably have a slightly more enlightened view on this; make no mistake, "upgrades" exist for both power and output transformers, no matter what you start with. I have no doubt that a nice Lundahl (or similar) output transformer beats the pants off whatever I ripped off that organ chassis last week - but the only bona-fide difference I can tell you about is the fact that the former contains a lot more iron

-k

[Bandersnatch]

hey-Hey!!!,
For power Iron, the performance is mostly a function of capacity. There isn't much else to it.

For signal Iron, the complexity of the winding is a big factor. The magnetic performance, as in leakage inductance or winding capacitance interact and effect the performance.

The core material can also be quite expensive, eg. Nickel or Amorphous alloys v. Silicon steel.

So much for scratching the top of the surface...
cheers,
Douglas

[ipop07]

oh wow, thanks, thats pretty good.....

For signal Iron, the complexity of the winding is a big factor. The magnetic performance, as in leakage inductance or winding capacitance interact and effect the performance.

so would a high leakage inductance cause a more grungier sound, more towards distortion or? and winding capacitance?

thanks a lot so far...

[Bandersnatch]

Originally posted by ipop07
oh wow, thanks, thats pretty good.....


so would a high leakage inductance cause a more grungier sound, more towards distortion or? and winding capacitance?

thanks a lot so far...

hey-Hey!!!,
If I knew what exactly made up the tone fingerprint, I'd go an' write a book. Seems to be a distinct lack of stuff like that...this property makes the amps sound like ____, so mix with ____ for that puuuuurrrrrrrfect bit of growl... Sorry, can't help you there.
cheers,
Douglas

[fredex]

Originally posted by ipop07
......so would a high leakage inductance cause a more grungier sound, more towards distortion or? and winding capacitance?
thanks a lot so far...

These things would affect frequency response, but it depends on the amp. Basically if you aren't up with what these specs mean just learn what are considered good specs are shoot for those. There is no magic here and you will find that the cheap tranys have worse specs, it is an old science and all manufacturers have the same problems.
If you want a 'grungy' sound (guitar) the transformer is not totally responsible for this.

[grhughes]

....a transformer is a passive device, ie. a filter. It generally is the weakest link (bandwidth wise) in the chain and the surrounding active circuitry has bandwidth far greater than most transformers. Like anything there are few poor and few truly exceptional and a whole crock full of mediocre ones. There are other grimlins that filter into our active circuitry that transformers being filters can help avoid. Freedom from EMT and RFI from attacking our active circuitry is the main grimlin and is probably responsible for a large share of the sonic grunge. " Drop in" replacement is a term reserved for automobile repair or hip replacement or some such thing. What you have to worry about is optimum plate impedance on the primary of the transformer and whether the primary winding can handle the plate current in the class of operation that the output stage operates (Class A, AB etc). Different output tubes offer differing output impedances that must be matched to the transformer if you want optimum power. Most transformer secondaries are relatively standard in that they have separate windings for 4, 8, 16 ohm speakers.