ORIENTED or Not ORIENTED cores for OPT - diyAudio
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Old 3rd July 2008, 03:19 PM   #1
ja2dhc is offline ja2dhc  Japan
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Default ORIENTED or Not ORIENTED cores for OPT

Does someone explain the difference of sonics between
ORIENTED core and Not-ORIENTED core of Output
Transformers with E-I shape core.
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Old 3rd July 2008, 04:41 PM   #2
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Hello ja2dhc
More Henry at same size.

Kind regards,
Darius
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Old 3rd July 2008, 04:48 PM   #3
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Sonics still same?

Doug
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Old 3rd July 2008, 06:22 PM   #4
EC8010 is offline EC8010  United Kingdom
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A grain oriented core (such as a C-core or a toroid) will saturate more sharply than a non-oriented core (such as an EI core).
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Old 4th July 2008, 10:57 AM   #5
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Cores (for audio and power transformer applications) mostly use Grain Oriented Silicon Steel. C-core and toroids have all of the flux parallel to the grain, whereas the is not the case in some regions of the EI.

Non oriented steels have lower saturation density, although this is improving. These steels are often used in motors.
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Old 4th July 2008, 11:04 AM   #6
ja2dhc is offline ja2dhc  Japan
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tweeker
whereas the is not the case in some regions of the EI.
Thanks Tweeker. That point is my concern. What is the
impact to sonic caused by this irregular flux path ?
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Old 4th July 2008, 11:42 AM   #7
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally posted by ja2dhc


Thanks Tweeker. That point is my concern. What is the
impact to sonic caused by this irregular flux path ?
I have taken a professionally wound bobbin and filled it with M4, M6 and some garbage from a cheapo-of-el-cheapo power tansformer.

Above 100Hz, I couldn't hear much difference and above 1KHz, none.

Below 100Hz, BIG difference. M4 was clean and full, M6 tight, but not as deep and the garbage was... well... garbage.

I have no idea if this helps, just the results of an impromptu bench test

Cheers!
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Old 4th July 2008, 08:48 PM   #8
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Commercial good quality stuff M6, the BH curve hasn't really improved for decades.
Quote:- Below 100Hz, BIG difference. M4 was clean and full, M6 tight, but not as deep and the garbage was... well... garbage.

No not really, when iron gets close to saturating on the BH curve the 2nd harmonic becomes dominant and the MI industry knows that lower fundamental lower f1 notes can't be reproduced on smaller bookshelf systems. So 2nd harmonic sounds with fuller bass on small box LS systems. Result, big bass extension systems can often sound too heavy reproducing both harmonics. One have it both ways but one needs to back off on the bass control.
E&I cores saturate smoothly as permeability is higher due to inherent airgaps within stacking laminations. An advantage with p-p tube o/p trannies as out of balance currents can be tolerated without performance problems.
Not all CD's and sound source studio techniques are uniform. The music market assumes most listeners have smaller bookshelf systems.
true/false ?

Question:-
How may audioforum users have bass speaker systems i.e 5Cuft (140Lit) or larger that can get down to 25Hz ?

richj
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Old 4th July 2008, 09:01 PM   #9
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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Pair of 11 cu ft bass modules.. Usable output down to about 35Hz.. (Jensen Ultraflex/Onken) Dropping rapidly below 30Hz...
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Old 4th July 2008, 10:19 PM   #10
EC8010 is offline EC8010  United Kingdom
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My last loudspeakers were transmission lines that had a bit of a bump at 20Hz. The new loudspeakers will be open baffles and will fall away at 18dB/oct from 40Hz; I'm hoping the lower Q resonance will be better.
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