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Problem with Beard Audio
Problem with Beard Audio
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Old 15th May 2008, 01:14 PM   #1
viiu is offline viiu  Canada
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Default Problem with Beard Audio

More than a year ago on May1, 2007, I placed an order with Chris Found for a full set of 28 tubes for my M70's. I paid 350 UK pounds which I paid via a bank transfer to his wifes account. I have the paperwork. I ordered from Canada.

I have not yet received the tubes.

After not receiving replies to my email last October, I posted on Audio Asyslum. Chris says his server was down and he didn't get the emails. He says his supplier shipped the tubes but I did not receive any notification of shipping.

Until March, I sent Chris an email a month requesting status. He always said thanks for the reminder and then nothing until I sent another email.

Finally, I filed a claim with UK Consumer Direct and cc'ed Chris.

This is an extract of his last email to me in March, ten months after my order.

"I have kept you informed of the issue of your valves, it is not my fault that you have not received them and an agreement has been made between the valve supplier and myself to issue a second set at our cost.

We are still in discussion with the carrier about this and this issue has been passed to my solicitor for action as they are insisting they have delivered the goods.

This email and your advertising of the problems has now caused me to have second thoughts about spending my own personal funds to remove your problem.

It is up to you what you do with forums and my reputation stands for the past 8 years of providing support."

I find it disturbing that Chris profits from this transaction and blames the nameless tubes supplier. Then he offers to pay me back from his own funds. He first made this offer in December but three months later he had not yet done so. I don't think he was serious.

I'm doubtful I'll get anything. I'm posting here for two reasons. One is a warning to international buyers and the other is to ask for advice on my best legal recourse. Of course, I don't want to spend more on legal fees than I've lost already.
Old 15th May 2008, 05:12 PM   #2
Tube_Dude is offline Tube_Dude  Portugal
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Hi, Tom

Welcome to Diyaudio.com.

I wish you luck in your journey ...

Old 16th May 2008, 01:28 PM   #3
andyjevans is offline andyjevans  United Kingdom
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: London
I'm not a legal person in any sense, but in the UK we have various online sites which may give you more information.


This outines what a "small claim" is and how to go about it. As you can see it covers "goods not supplied".


The above site seems to offer an online service - may be easier to use.

Since you have had no resolution and it has been some time now, I should go ahead and look at these options. Common sense suggests that if no attempt has been made by this person to resolve the situation, he needs to realise that you are serious about getting your money back and that you are not prepared to wait an indefinite time.

Good Luck!
Old 5th October 2010, 01:16 PM   #4
iconserv is offline iconserv  Norway
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Default Beard Audio


I recently bought a pair of Beard M70s - I am currently driving a pair of ESL57s and they sound great - I have an idea of rebuilding a second set of ESL57s and having stacked QUADS - as the M70 is basically a P35 with what looks like a simple wire bridgeat the input and output sockets (not even a good piece of wire) - I would like to seek advice that by simply removing the bridge at the two pairs of speaker terminals I can effectively turn them into P35s with a shared input.

Can any of you advise or does any of you have a P35 wiring diagram so that I can check for circuit changes.

A second smaller question - I would like to get 6p14p-er tubes - any advice on whether the transformers will cope with 12 tubes with a slightly higher filament current (0.47- 0.86 instead of o.7 - 0.82)

Old 5th October 2010, 03:43 PM   #5
richwalters is offline richwalters
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Originally Posted by viiu View Post
I paid via a bank transfer to his wifes account. I have the paperwork. I ordered from Canada.
This is appalling service and been dragging on for far too long.
I recon his marriage is on the rocks and his/was wife profitted from you.

I've never experienced order slackness from the UK, however ordering by CC would have reclaimed your dosh.

Old 15th November 2010, 02:08 PM   #6
chrisfound is offline chrisfound  United Kingdom
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Default for richwalters

you have had all the necessary information, yet you still moan.

I told you we had put a claim with the couriers who returned that they had delivered your valves, we tried on several attempts to discuss this or trace the loss but you seemed persistent in complaining to the forums instead of discussing this direct.
The email address has not changed, nor the address and although I had a small problem with my server provider this was resolved quickly.

If you want to discuss this, take it off the board, if not I will ask the moderator to ban you.

Chris Found
Old 15th November 2010, 02:11 PM   #7
chrisfound is offline chrisfound  United Kingdom
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Location: London
all service information is chargeable but I can tell you that it is more than just paralleling of the input and output terminals that make a M70, the output transformer has a different impedance ratio.
I will also remind you that the amplifier works best when the valves are matched as close a possible.
Old 3rd March 2012, 12:19 PM   #8
dcd is offline dcd  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by chrisfound View Post
all service information is chargeable

There's chargeable and ridiculously overpriced - But being threatened with legal action for sketching out a schematic rather than pay "the owner" 100GBP for a copy! See email from Chris Found below (sent to my business address although initially I was communicating via my personal email address)

To: 'Keith Snook' <keith@dc-daylight.ltd.uk>
Subject: RE: copyright

Why are you fighting...

Copyright law dictate the ownership of the product design, the circuit and
layout arrangement there in, it protects the copying, part or full, in any
form or purpose, namely the Beard Audio CA35.
This copyright is controlled wholly by the board and its contents inside and
the marking of the company name on the outside, a secondary protection is by
the release of a serial number which is logged against records outside my

When this unit was designed, the circuit design was unique, several
manufacturers acquired licences to make copies of specific parts of the
circuit but not the full or original unit.

When I took over the servicing of the Beard products in 2001, I updated any
copyrights that had passed and they are in force till 2025

Irrespective of whether you think the law does not apply to you, this is
still an area where the court would side with the originator (Beard Audio)
rather than the defendant.

I hold all the product information on every Beard made from start of the
company till closure, these include designs from myself for the company and
feel most strongly about allowing people to reverse the circuit for whatever
means they would initially use it for and as you have a schematic page on
your website it seems logical that if I had not forced this issue the
circuit would have ended up your website or passed between members of a
forum for which would require action to remove.
Beard audio service is not a charity and when it comes to rebuilding
modified boards, it is easier for the owner to bring it to us for reversion
where updates can be advised to improve the performance.
We also know the products more than anyone else and I have seen too many of
our designs through my service department from non valve qualified engineers
or people that think they can do the repair themselves.

You decided to not go this route and insult me with a childish reply and I
am sure if this was returned in the opposite direction you would be annoyed

I would seriously recommend reviewing your actions in regards to this
product otherwise I will pass this to legal.
I trust you will make the best decision.

Chris Found

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Snook [mailto:keith@dc-daylight.ltd.uk]
Sent: 02 March 2012 20:25
To: service
Subject: Re: copyright


The point you are missing is that somebody else modified a CA35 in the past
and I simply wish to put it back as original - One would think you would
appreciate that

Unless I make or intend to make commercial gain from this there is no law -
UK or other - that has been broken

The person who sent the information simply sketched out component values
against the silk screen references - I have gone further and started
sketching a schematic which may appear on the web soon

The "design" is nothing special - straight out of the "boys own book of
electronics" - If anyone has any patents on such vanilla designs I would be
very surprised

There is nothing on the CA35 product to indicate it is a protected design
but if you could demonstrate otherwise I will of course comply with any
relevant legislation

If your legal agents wish to write to me they should send mail to this
address: . . . . .

Anyone not afraid of the big bad wolf got some Beard Schematics to share ?

Old 3rd March 2012, 12:58 PM   #9
KatieandDad is offline KatieandDad  United Kingdom
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I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS use VISA to purhase anything on-line. If something goes wrong they will reimburse you and fight to get theire money back independantly.
Old 3rd March 2012, 03:01 PM   #10
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Join Date: May 2007
Copyright protection automatically exists for a circuit diagram (under UK law). This is quite separate from any protection via patent or registered design. The circuit does not have to be innovative, provided that it is not so extremely trivial that no work at all was needed to produce it. Just as a book is copyright (even though the author invented none of the words in it) so a circuit is copyright (even though all the sub-circuits in it may be 'standard textbook' stuff). Many companies are quite happy for people to see their circuits.

Others are not. Various reasons include:
1. want to hide a clever idea from competitors (but they may buy and reverse engineer one anyway).
2. want to hide lack of clever ideas from customers (but the truth may eventually leak out anyway)
3. want to make some profit on repairs and upgrades.
All of these are perfectly legal. There is a specific exemption under EU law for reverse engineering for the purpose of interfacing another item - you could make a widget to plug in to it and in order to do this you can reverse engineer the device. I'm not sure if this would also cover repair and modification of the device itself. If you are making no money from it then it is not worth sueing you, but the law has still been broken. If you publish the circuit without permission then the owner can sue for his subsequential losses (e.g. loss of repairs income) or apply to a court for an injunction. You would then be in contempt of court if you persisted.

You might think he is being heavy-handed. You might wish you had bought something for which a circuit diagram was available. The law is on his side.

I am not a lawyer, so this is not legal advice, just my opinion.

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