• WARNING: Tube/Valve amplifiers use potentially LETHAL HIGH VOLTAGES.
    Building, troubleshooting and testing of these amplifiers should only be
    performed by someone who is thoroughly familiar with
    the safety precautions around high voltages.

Tube Phono stage dilema

It would seem moving coil amplification with tubes is perhaps unobtainable unless some noise is tolerated.

That is exactly right. Let's see why that's true.

One convenient way to specify a tube's noise is to compare it to the Johnson noise of an ideal resistor, multiplied by the tube's gain. In other words, a tube can be thought of as an ideal (noiseless) tube with a normally moisy resistor at its input. This spec is generally called "equivalent input noise resistance."

One of the very quietest tubes in audio is the triode-connected D3a, just like Alexander used. Run balls-out, its equivalent input noise resistance is about 60 ohms, i.e., it acts as an ideal tube with a 60 ohm (room temperature) resistor at the input. Now, a typical MC cartridge will have an internal resistance of just a few ohms, plus another ohm or so for wiring. Call it 6 ohms in total. There is, of course, an intrinsic Johnson noise to the phono cartridge, which sets a noise floor that a preamp can't help. All the preamp can do is add noise.

OK, so with a source impedance of 6 ohms and an equivalent noise resistance of 60 ohms, it can be seen that the tube (and this is a pretty darn quiet tube running at its limits) is adding 10dB of noise beyond that of an ideal preamp. For a more sane operating condition, the ENR will be more like 100 ohms or so.

An ECC88 is worse. Best case, and this is rarely achieved in practice, the ENR is about 350 ohm. So there's almost 20dB more noise than an ideal preamp. Paralleling gives a 3dB improvement, not super helpful.

What does a transformer do? If you use a 1:10 stepup (and for simplicity, I'll ignore the DCR), the cartridge now appears as a 600 ohm source. Suddenly, the ECC88 is only adding 2dB more noise than the theoretical minimum.

Transformers are a bit tricky to optimize, but they present the best solution for tube designers of RIAA stages.
 
SY,

Are these noise values valid for both common cathode and common grid connected tubes? I ask this because I also tried a MC head amp with an ECC88 connected in common grid and it sounded magically. The cartridge was directly connected in the cathode, which has some dangers (1 or 2 mA DC flowing through the coil). Using an 1:4 transformer there would be perfect impedance matching and the B+ voltage could be raised.

Laszlo
 

Attachments

  • vogel.jpg
    vogel.jpg
    47.7 KB · Views: 693
HI, having recently redescovered the delights of vinyl I am looking to build a moving coil compatible tube phono stage, for a low to medium output mc cartridge, 0.3mV output.

Previously i have used the first version of the Curcio Daniel, set up in the higher gain option, this comprised a single ECC88 cascode with 100R cathode, and 20K plate load, Passive eq and a further Parallel ECC88 Common Cathode with 392R on each sections cathode and a
20K plate load.

Great sounding, but I found the noise levels not really acceptable for a 0.3mv output moving coil. Not in the long term anyway.

So what to build?

I would prefer a zero feedback topology, all tube if possible. with minimum number off stages

I have considered a hybrid similar to the Daniel, only with a Jfet as the first input device aka Allen Wright, Erno Borbelly amongst others. I guess this would solve the noise and gain issues, but i would still prefer an all tube design

Or perhaps a parrallel input tube like the Steve Bench or Toccata Loesch preamp, or the later Curcio Sarah would just be quiet enough.

Would it be better to build a 2 stage low gain moving magnet RIAA equaliser and build an extra moving coil stage such as the Hampton or MC Hammer , trouble is 3 stages off amplification.

Has anyone tried a cascode with multiple tubes on the bottom section, operating with near zero grid bias?

Any sugestions or ideas welcome
a friend of me had make good experiences with a Graaf WTB one - go to second PDF in post #8 under
Graaf Graafiti WTB One - Schematic needed
the 4AH5 from National provide much more better SNR than PC900.