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Old 17th February 2008, 11:42 PM   #1
WE91 is offline WE91  Norway
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Smile Lineup of four: Help me choose?! OPT for SE

Hi all!

This is really hard!

Believe it or not
- Yes I have searched, but not found a direct answer giving me the input I feel I need for my project. So please excuse me for yet another SE OPT question!

I am going to build DIY Hi Fi Supply Lux (12W SE300B with pentode + cathode follower driver), but I want to find the very best sounding OPTs for it. The originals are good, but can be bettered.

I want almost the impossible; tight bass, dense "goosebump" MF with details and 3D with higs that are airy and transparent.

I have chosen a lineup that's reknown for many of these traits. Which one to choose?
If anybody could please share their thoughts, impressions or know how about the following lineup of OPTs, I would be very grateful for their help:

* Hashimoto H-30-3.5S Here
* Sowter SA08 Here
* Tamura F-7002 Here
* Plitron/Amplimo VDV3035 Here

These are the ones on my list, and a pair of one of these it's going to be. So please only comment on the above mentioned ones. The prices are about the same (give or take some) for all of them. They have each got their special traits, and that's why they've made this lineup. More data is to be found on the net on many of them, but I know that all of them are really excellent designs, - so it is really "only" feedback on choice in relation to sound I would be interested in. As you see all OPTs have a Zp of 3.5Kohms, but there are different specs for the cores and the cores are of different material and construction. All have their special approach and I would probably be happy with any of these, but wich do YOU believe to be the "better" one???

It is hard to choose when the candidates all are soooo damned good!!!

Looking very much forward to all comments!


Best Regards Aril
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Old 18th February 2008, 12:56 AM   #2
WE91 is offline WE91  Norway
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As I have seen mentioned many places as being one of the best, the now gone Tango has to be mentioned here.

If anyone know of, or have a pair of Tango NY-15-3.5S or Tango X-3.5S for sale, please let me know :-)

Just had to mention them.

Please just give me your impression on the OPTs mentioned, if you have heard them in a 300B design - or just give me your point of wiew.

Regards
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Old 18th February 2008, 01:07 AM   #3
arnoldc is offline arnoldc  Philippines
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Unfortunately for me, I have not heard other than Tamura and Tango..

So having said that, based on the amps that my friends built using 7000 series, or 5000 series (I myself use F-475) or the Tango X-3.5S, they do sound very good. Of course the baseline circuit will have to be good to begin with.
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Old 18th February 2008, 10:29 AM   #4
WE91 is offline WE91  Norway
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arnoldc

I would say that you are very fortunate. I see that you haven't compared to any of the other I have mentioned, but then again one would have to try different OPTs in the same design amp to get a notion of the difference. My question is definetely not a "scientific one". I do not ask for "absolutes" but for subjective impressions!
Arnoldc, I would be very much interested in what you subjectively would say is your impression of the sound from the Tamura and Tango equiped amps you know. With these Japanese "iron" I would like to know about the frequency extremes; bass and highs. I know this is all about vague impressions that would be very difficult to find valid for a different amplifier but, in a way, this can make me (and others) "get a feel" for what to choose, when contemplating OPT-designs that are allready among the very best.

Hoping for more input. If more people could give their "subjective impressions" here, it would be a string of thoughts and opinions that may point to some differences in the perceived sound of these very fine OPT's!

Please just describe your notion about any of the mentioned OPTs, if you know any of them.

Regards Aril
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Old 18th February 2008, 10:45 AM   #5
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Hi,

Quote:
If anyone know of, or have a pair of Tango NY-15-3.5S or Tango X-3.5S for sale, please let me know
Many Tango transformers are now being made by ISO-TANGO which is a small compnay started by the same peopkle who designed the original Tango transformers. The ISO-TANGO transformers are direct copies of the original Tango ones.

Here is a PDF of the current ISO catalogue http://noguchi-trans.xsrv.jp/digital...g/main/iso.pdf

You can buy the transformers either directly from Japan or from a distributor like EIFL

http://noguchi-trans.co.jp/index.php?main_page=page_3

http://www.eifl.co.jp/index/export/ISO.html

Regards Hans
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Old 18th February 2008, 02:39 PM   #6
WE91 is offline WE91  Norway
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Thank you, tubetvr, - Hans!
I didn't know about the ISO Tango.
- As I see none of the two "old Tango" models I mentioned are being re-manufactured yet. But the others I have mentioned in my first posting are all in the approximate same quality-region, although different.
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Old 18th February 2008, 05:07 PM   #7
WE91 is offline WE91  Norway
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Does anyone know anything about the ISO Tango FC 30-3.5S ?
Core material (permalloy?) and sound? Is this the closest ISO to the old Tango X-3.5S?
Just wonder.

Please do comment on the other OPT's mentioned here. I believe the OPTs mentioned in this thread are among the best balanced and best sounding for SE and especially 300B ;-)
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Old 18th February 2008, 08:30 PM   #8
WE91 is offline WE91  Norway
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Hi again.

The ISO Tango must be a contender here as well. It seems like the FC-30-3.5S is one of their better OPTs for SE 300B ... It is in the same price range as the others I have mentioned. I have read sooo much nice about the old Tango X-3.5S so if someone could enlighten me (and others) about its relation to the new ISO range, I'll be very pleased. Hans, - there's a European distributor of Tango and Tamura (as well as Partridge): Here

I believe the OPTs on this list to have among the most balanced sound of all OPTs. When this is combined with exceptional inner detail, transparence, dynamic bass and magical midrange, this list is a veritable succulent smoergaasbord to drool over. It is difficult to choose and I can not afford to buy them all.

Well, here's the current list with a few comments. It goes as follows - and to choose is still very difficult (not in priority):
* Hashimoto H-30-3.5S
- Double C-core with very special winding and product of very long, very selective and very concious developement. Rich midrange and supposedly very good imaging and inner detail with extended, but somewhat "darker" highs. Very good bass! I do not belive in people "dissing" these OPTs for using HiB with a bit thicker laminations. I believe this to be a very concious choice that together with other factors make just one of the more magic MF's around - perhaps!
* Plitron/Amplimo VDV3035
- Mr. Menno is a genius. This is a very special product. It is perhaps a "wildcard" here, since it may be outperforming all its contenders in all respects(?). I haven't seen any comparisons with high quality Japanese OPT's, though, so I am assuming and guessing based on phenomenal data. It is only specced for 13W (at 20Hz?), though. Is this good enough for SE 12W Lux? The silver-wound OPT's are very expensive and not considered. Still, reading Menno's own findings about this makes me think if the "ordinary" 3035 is as good as I have come to suspect ... I am a bit confused.
* Tamura F-7002
Permalloy-cored and with a very, very good midrange. Does it compare to Hashimoto? I have heard about some less HF detail than Amorphous 5000 series, but it has a tight and good bass, which the 5000's haven't. I have heard it needs a lot of time to settle. Has anyone listened to a well broken in F-7000 series OPT?? The power-spec. of 10W worries me. Will it handle 12W Lux? Will the "headroom" be too little. Many peaople belive that enough headrroom (big core) produce better spatial characteristics in an OPT and certainly a better bass.
* ISO Tango FC-30-3.5S
If this is anything like its predecessor X-30-3.5S, it is phenomenal!
I do not know much about this one, only that ISO Tango consists of very knowledgeable people with "old" Tango know how and that Kondo has chosen to let them make his OPTs. If anybody knows something about this one, please do tell!
* Sowter SA08
Brian Sowter is knowledgeable. They make many very fine products! His EI-cored SA08 is supposedly better specced than Partridge OPT's used by L'Audiophile. The cores are HiB in thin lamination and the winding technique is second to none. How good is this OPT really? I have heard varied reports. It's on this list because I believe it is somewhat underrated by many.

I'm looking very much forward to your thoughts and/or experience!

Regards Aril
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Old 18th February 2008, 08:51 PM   #9
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The Silk transformers that DIYHIFISUPPLY sells are very good and they are very fairly priced. Do not overlook them.
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Old 18th February 2008, 10:38 PM   #10
arnoldc is offline arnoldc  Philippines
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Hi Aril,

What I've learned is what is called "diminishing returns"

You can expect to pay so much, but you won't get that much improvement / dollar spent.

You might find it interesting to read Joseph Esmilla's thoughts about transformers from Tamura, to Tango to James.

http://members.myactv.net/~je2a3/welcome.htm

He has used those transaformers in the same circuit, which he designed.
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