Real music power

Conta · 13th February 2008, 06:22 PM

On what music power are you listening music at home? Is really necessary for you amplifier with power 100W ?

HollowState · 13th February 2008, 08:21 PM

I guess it largely depends on what speakers you are using, and to a lesser degree on the kind of music and room size. I still use Randall modified Dahlquist DQ-10s. They are very inefficient and eat up 100 watts for lunch. But I love their smooth seamless sound. To play an orchestra crescendo at concert levels you need power for these as well as my Vandersteens.

I bi amp them with an amp of my own making running JAN 6550As in UL. With 600 volts of B+ I get 100 watts out from 60 Hz up. I've never been able to overload the Dollies.

Victor

pedroskova · 13th February 2008, 08:27 PM

In contrast to Hollow State, with my Infinity Prelude PFR's (95dB/w/m), my ears will bleed before my little ~12 watt PP 6V6 breaks into a sweat.

TubeHead Johnny · 13th February 2008, 09:14 PM

I have a pair of homebrew speakers that put out 90 db/w/m in a medium sized room. I never really needed anything over 30 watts, but then again I don't play any music at "wall shaking" volume. (My neighbors love me for that!)

tubewade · 14th February 2008, 12:14 AM

My experience runs the same as pedroskova. In my bi-amplified system, 5 watts/channel single-ended 6BQ5 for the high frequencies and 25 watts/channel P/P KT66 for the low frequencies is more than plenty. In fact, even 12 watts/channel P/P 6BQ5 is enough for the bass. Observation with an o'scope and a high power amplifier has shown me that I really never exceed 10 watts/channel. Most of the time a few hundred mW would be enough.

I have no doubts that there are some speakers available that could waste several hundred watts very easily.

aerius · 14th February 2008, 12:20 AM

A few milliwatts does the job quite nicely, then again I'm using headphones...

ArtG · 14th February 2008, 12:49 AM

Paul Klipsch once remarked, "What this country needs, is a good 5 watt amplifier!" But, then again, his horns were rated at something like 105db/1W/1M. My Altecs are slightly less efficient, so I need a 15 Watts /channel. With this amount of power, I can "entertain" the neighbors at will.

Salas · 14th February 2008, 01:25 AM

90-93dB at listening position with 97-100dB peaks for most of the time.
My 95dB efficient speakers can do well with a 20W tube amp for that and there is spare headroom.

sorenj07 · 14th February 2008, 02:28 AM

I use an ~6W amp (trioded EL84 PP) with 96dB speakers and it really gets as loud as i can ever tolerate. and i also occasionally listen to crazy pounding minimal techno.

pmillett · 14th February 2008, 03:47 AM

Hmmm... not sure if I misunderstand the question, or if nobody has answered it

In my "day job", at least for the purpose of power dissipation, we usually figure a 10dB "crest factor" for music. That is, the peak music power will be 10dB above the average.

Of course, this depends on the music. A lot of modern cr@p is so compressed that it doesn't have much dynamic range.

I guess you can just think of this as headroom.

So if you have 90db/1W speakers, I would say you need 10 watts if you listen at 90dB. That would give you 10dB of headroom.

Does that make any sense?

Now, one of the beauties of tube amps is that since they don't typically clip abrubtly and provide some peak compression, you can (maybe) live with less headroom than this.

This is why some people say "tube watts are bigger than solid-state watts".

Pete

13th February 2008, 06:22 PM	#1
Conta diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2007	Real music power On what music power are you listening music at home? Is really necessary for you amplifier with power 100W ?

13th February 2008, 08:21 PM	#2
HollowState diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Taxland, New Jersey	I guess it largely depends on what speakers you are using, and to a lesser degree on the kind of music and room size. I still use Randall modified Dahlquist DQ-10s. They are very inefficient and eat up 100 watts for lunch. But I love their smooth seamless sound. To play an orchestra crescendo at concert levels you need power for these as well as my Vandersteens. I bi amp them with an amp of my own making running JAN 6550As in UL. With 600 volts of B+ I get 100 watts out from 60 Hz up. I've never been able to overload the Dollies. Victor __________________ "The supercomputer is technologically impossible. It would take all of the water that flows over Niagara Falls to cool the heat generated by the number of vacuum tubes required." ~ Professor of Electrical Engineering, New York University

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13th February 2008, 08:27 PM	#3
pedroskova RIP Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: C'ville VA, USA	In contrast to Hollow State, with my Infinity Prelude PFR's (95dB/w/m), my ears will bleed before my little ~12 watt PP 6V6 breaks into a sweat.

13th February 2008, 09:14 PM	#4
TubeHead Johnny diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The emerald city, Seattle, WA.	I have a pair of homebrew speakers that put out 90 db/w/m in a medium sized room. I never really needed anything over 30 watts, but then again I don't play any music at "wall shaking" volume. (My neighbors love me for that!)

14th February 2008, 12:14 AM	#5
tubewade diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2007	My experience runs the same as pedroskova. In my bi-amplified system, 5 watts/channel single-ended 6BQ5 for the high frequencies and 25 watts/channel P/P KT66 for the low frequencies is more than plenty. In fact, even 12 watts/channel P/P 6BQ5 is enough for the bass. Observation with an o'scope and a high power amplifier has shown me that I really never exceed 10 watts/channel. Most of the time a few hundred mW would be enough. I have no doubts that there are some speakers available that could waste several hundred watts very easily.

14th February 2008, 12:20 AM	#6
aerius diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2006	A few milliwatts does the job quite nicely, then again I'm using headphones...

14th February 2008, 12:49 AM	#7
ArtG diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Central PA	Paul Klipsch once remarked, "What this country needs, is a good 5 watt amplifier!" But, then again, his horns were rated at something like 105db/1W/1M. My Altecs are slightly less efficient, so I need a 15 Watts /channel. With this amount of power, I can "entertain" the neighbors at will.

14th February 2008, 01:25 AM	#8
Salas diyAudio Chief Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Athens-Greece	90-93dB at listening position with 97-100dB peaks for most of the time. My 95dB efficient speakers can do well with a 20W tube amp for that and there is spare headroom.

14th February 2008, 02:28 AM	#9
sorenj07 diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2006	I use an ~6W amp (trioded EL84 PP) with 96dB speakers and it really gets as loud as i can ever tolerate. and i also occasionally listen to crazy pounding minimal techno.

14th February 2008, 03:47 AM	#10
pmillett diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Dallas (but I am not a Texan!)	Hmmm... not sure if I misunderstand the question, or if nobody has answered it In my "day job", at least for the purpose of power dissipation, we usually figure a 10dB "crest factor" for music. That is, the peak music power will be 10dB above the average. Of course, this depends on the music. A lot of modern cr@p is so compressed that it doesn't have much dynamic range. I guess you can just think of this as headroom. So if you have 90db/1W speakers, I would say you need 10 watts if you listen at 90dB. That would give you 10dB of headroom. Does that make any sense? Now, one of the beauties of tube amps is that since they don't typically clip abrubtly and provide some peak compression, you can (maybe) live with less headroom than this. This is why some people say "tube watts are bigger than solid-state watts". Pete