Power Transconductance Amp with Tubes, How?
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 9th January 2008, 05:28 AM #1 CLS   diyAudio Member   Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Taiwan Power Transconductance Amp with Tubes, How? A little background... Supposedly most of you have read this: http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/cs-amps-speakers.pdf It's fascinating to drive those low Q driver with "additional power" to the region of bass resonance peak. Doing it elegantly with high output impedance. While "normal" amp can only provide a fraction of rated power on these low frequency high impedance peaks with their voltage output... Why do I need this? I'm going to build an OB bass module, I guess this might be a good alternative to the "regular amp +massive EQ" combination. So I'm thinking how to build this "power transconductance amp" with tubes. Or, simply doing it by modifying an existed amp? By reading the text book (or the likes), a transconductance amp can be formed by "current series" feedback. Simply put, taking the output current to feed the input. So, here it is. This is a simplified circuit of Altec 1568A: You can see the NFB is formed by a separate winding on the OPT, and feed into the cathode circuit of the 1st stage by the 47R/1k5 divider. Except for the independent feedback winding, it is a typical voltage feedback type, thus a "voltage amplifier". Now I'm trying to modify it into a "transconductance amp" by: Taking the output current to feed input, simple enough? But how can I figure out the "??" in the cathode circuit? Will this work? Am I too naive on this? Any foreseeable disaster? Any comments are welcome.
 9th January 2008, 06:18 AM #2 planet10   frugal-phile(tm) diyAudio Moderator     Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III My understanding is that a no feedback pentode is a natural transconductance amp. dave __________________ community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi p10-hifi forum here at diyA
 9th January 2008, 06:23 AM #3 agent.5   diyAudio Member   Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA www.tubecad.com has an article about it, as I recalled.
 9th January 2008, 06:27 AM #4 CLS   diyAudio Member   Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Taiwan Thanks. But pentodes have too much intrinsic distortions, wouldn't they?
 9th January 2008, 06:48 AM #5 jan.didden   diyAudio Member     Join Date: May 2002 Location: The great city of Turnhout, BE I would look at the voltage you are feeding back in the voltage feedback case. Suppose that for a 1V output on the speaker you feed back 0.1V (I'm just making the numbers up). Then, in the current feedback case, with the same 1V output, I want the same feedback level. So, with the 1V into the nominal 8 ohms, I have an output current of 125mA. This 125mA through the ?? should give that 0.1V so ?? = 0.8 ohms. Sanity check: we are looking for 0.1 times the drive as feedback. With a load on nominal 8 ohms, we came up with a sense resistor of 0.8 ohms so this looks allright. Then, at resonance, the nominal speaker load increases above 8 ohms -> the current through ?? decreases -> less feedback -> more output level -> that's what you wanted. Jan Didden __________________ Cable: a potential source of trouble interconnecting two other potential sources of trouble - Erik Margan Linear Audio pubs and articles . The SilentSwitcher now at diyaudio store SilentSwitcher. Keeping in touch with SY.
planet10
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator

Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Quote:
 But pentodes have too much intrinsic distortions, wouldn't they?
I believe that might only apply when using them in a constant voltage amp.

dave
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community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA

jan.didden
diyAudio Member

Join Date: May 2002
Location: The great city of Turnhout, BE
Quote:
 Originally posted by planet10 I believe that might only apply when using them in a constant voltage amp. dave

Dave, I don't understand your comment?
The way I explained it, would lead to two amps, one voltage source, the other current source. Both would play equally loud at mid frequencies where the speaker impedance approaches a nominal value. Then, at resonance, where the speaker imp would rise, the current amp would increase the drive. That was the idea, no?

Jan Didden
__________________
Cable: a potential source of trouble interconnecting two other potential sources of trouble - Erik Margan
Linear Audio pubs and articles . The SilentSwitcher now at diyaudio store SilentSwitcher. Keeping in touch with SY.

planet10
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator

Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Quote:
 Originally posted by janneman I don't understand your comment?
:^)

I was actually commenting on the post before yours... i wasn't expecting you to be writing a post at the same time i was, so i didn't bothrer to quote. I've fixed that.

dave

PS: how is tomorrow morning in BE?
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA

 9th January 2008, 07:40 AM #9 jan.didden   diyAudio Member     Join Date: May 2002 Location: The great city of Turnhout, BE Tomorrow morning is drab, as is fitting for the season..... Just had a global-warming-blamed storm. I was hoping to lose a few trees that are too close to the house but they didn't give in Jan Didden __________________ Cable: a potential source of trouble interconnecting two other potential sources of trouble - Erik Margan Linear Audio pubs and articles . The SilentSwitcher now at diyaudio store SilentSwitcher. Keeping in touch with SY.
 9th January 2008, 07:42 AM #10 CLS   diyAudio Member   Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Taiwan Thanks for all your comments agent.5, I found that article, and studying it, thanks a lot. (but I always have some problems to convert those circuits in the articles into reality ) janneman, you should be a teacher, and you can be a good one I understand you clearly and I'll follow that for my own calculations. plante10, Actually, I once tried pulling out the feedback resistor of this amp and had a listen. (virtually no NFB) It was very interesting, almost funny, and really scaring. I just hooked it up to my bass box (not an OB back then), and the sound was heeeuuuuge, vague, overly expanded, and almost no control at all. (And the gain is just too much) Maybe I'll try it again with OB to see if any good

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