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Old 2nd January 2008, 01:37 AM   #1
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Default 813 Thoughts

Guys,
Can ya please check out this 813SE design ? Im about ready to get underway; and Im not second guessing my op point for the 813...
I have the B+ coming out of the PSU @ 900v, and 100mA on the plate. I know this tube can be pushed WAY harder; but would there be any benefit ? My OPT's can take up to 1.2kV/50w

Click the image to open in full size.

Thanks !
Steve
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Old 2nd January 2008, 02:47 AM   #2
ArtG is offline ArtG  United States
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Steve,
Harder perhaps, but not "way" harder. I can't find any charts on this for Class A operation. Maybe you should bias it for class C? 900 volts and 100ma on the plate is gonna run the dissipation up pretty good!
It's gonna get warm! But I DO want to hear it when you get it "cookin"! ---ART---
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Old 2nd January 2008, 11:52 AM   #3
7N7 is offline 7N7  United Kingdom
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A couple of points.

First, if you are using AC for the 813's filament then do include a humbucker pot - I fould these very useful and my 813 project was a p-p amplifier.

Second, how much current are you running throught the paralleled 6SN7? There will need to be quite a bit. I would prefer (no doubt it's stereo?) to run the second 6SN7 as a cathode follower; this would drive the 813 much better.

900V and 100mA is an excellent operating point for an 813. I experimented with UL without feedback and the sound was very poor (high anode resistance) Depending on the primary impedance of your transformer, you might well prefer it as a triode - it makes a very good triode indeed,

7N7
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Old 2nd January 2008, 12:29 PM   #4
Gluca is offline Gluca  Italy
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Quote:
Originally posted by 7N7


Depending on the primary impedance of your transformer, you might well prefer it as a triode - it makes a very good triode indeed,

7N7

I do agree. DC filaments are mandatory. In my amp the 813 was triode strapped (thanks for the curves) and running at 900V/100mA (fixed bias) with a 10K load (well... it was parafed) for +20W. I would not go with lower loads, but that is my personal take.

Ciao
Gianluca
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Old 2nd January 2008, 12:48 PM   #5
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Default 813 mullings

Steve...
Cool schemo...Hadn't thought of paralleling like that!
Where did you find your OPT? My design is a bit different & I have found all my TXs' off the shelve but not the OPTs'.
Take a look!.........
_____________________________________Rick......... ..
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Old 2nd January 2008, 02:22 PM   #6
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Gents,
Thanks for all the input !
I will be using a tentlabs fil supply; so it'll be regulated DC on the heater. I didn't give much thought into a CF; I paralleled the 6SN7's to get some more current into the 813....Maybe a 2nd tube for the CF that I will just split between the two channels ?
My OPT was custom ordered from Heyboer; very reasonable price. I had it built to be 6K, 40% UL tap, 50w, and voltage up to 1.2kV.
Any suggestions for a feedback circuit ? I would be interested in hearing some ideas...
Richard - looks pretty cool - What does your PSU look like ? Here's my idea for my 900v B+

Click the image to open in full size.

Thanks !
Steve
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Old 2nd January 2008, 02:29 PM   #7
7N7 is offline 7N7  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steven-H
Gents,
[...]I paralleled the 6SN7's to get some more current into the 813....Maybe a 2nd tube for the CF that I will just split between the two channels ?
My OPT was custom ordered from Heyboer; very reasonable price. I had it built to be 6K, 40% UL tap, 50w, and voltage up to 1.2kV.
[...]

Steve
Yes, that was my idea; you should use a second 6SN7 for the cathode followers as of course you would have to elevate the heaters to prevent challenges to the heater/cathode insulation.

At your operating point 6k would probably give good results with 813 triode-strapped (Ra = 1.8k).

No suggestions for feedback, I cannot do the maths!

7N7
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Old 2nd January 2008, 02:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by 7N7


Yes, that was my idea; you should use a second 6SN7 for the cathode followers as of course you would have to elevate the heaters to prevent challenges to the heater/cathode insulation.

At your operating point 6k would probably give good results with 813 triode-strapped (Ra = 1.8k).

No suggestions for feedback, I cannot do the maths!

7N7

Thanks !
Im out of my league a bit when it comes to your suggestion to 'elevate the heaters'. What does this mean exactly ?
I'll see if I can find some triode curves; I do want to at least try it in UL first though
Also, later this evening I'll see if I can rework the schematic a bit to include a CF and see what I can come up with for a NFB circuit...

Thanks again !
Steve
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Old 2nd January 2008, 02:50 PM   #9
7N7 is offline 7N7  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steven-H



Thanks !
Im out of my league a bit when it comes to your suggestion to 'elevate the heaters'. What does this mean exactly ?
I'll see if I can find some triode curves; I do want to at least try it in UL first though
Also, later this evening I'll see if I can rework the schematic a bit to include a CF and see what I can come up with for a NFB circuit...

Thanks again !
Steve
Re Heaters:

Every valve has its heater/cathode insulation limits specified in terms of the maximum voltage between the two.

In most amplifiers, the heater supply is referenced to ground, so a typical supply is 3.15-0-3.15v giving 6.3v; the centre tap is connected to ground. A better practice is to attach the centre tap to say +40V, this in the words of Morgan Jones in his book "Valve Amplifiers" "turns off the 'diode'" that is created by the heater filament and the cathode of the valve. This is fine for valves that are running with their cathodes at around 0V. A cathode follower necessarily (unless the cathode is returned to a negative supply) has its cathode at perhaps 200V. In such a case the centre tap of the heater supply should be referenced to at least 200V. This is fully covered in "Valve Amplifiers".

As for triode curves, I have a set; these my be found on Pete Millet's site - I am not at home at present so cannot send them to you.

7N7
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Old 2nd January 2008, 02:59 PM   #10
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I see.....
So I understand the theory - but in practice what you are saying is that I should toss a resistor or voltage divider off of my 400v B+ line, and hook the CT of the 6.3v line to it ?

Thanks again,
Steve
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