Cheap alternative to EF86

[7N7]

Originally posted by fauxpas


Yeah, I did a search on ebay to find these so what is peanuts to you?

Yes, there are some bargains there and also some extreme optimists...

7N7

[SY]

And with Don Byas, don't forget. Byas is sadly neglected and ought to be thought of in the same league as Bird or Trane.

Anyway, my apologies for bringing up music. I've got a couple Holland EF86 that have been waiting for 20 years for me to use them in something.

[7N7]

Originally posted by SY
And with Don Byas, don't forget. Byas is sadly neglected and ought to be thought of in the same league as Bird or Trane.

Anyway, my apologies for bringing up music. I've got a couple Holland EF86 that have been waiting for 20 years for me to use them in something.

Sorry, I don't know anything about Byas (Bias is less of a problem...)

But EF86 is not a "good valve" - I promise you, 6BR7 is better - and 6BS7 is probably better still

7N7

[Shoog]

Thanks for all the ideas.
I especially like the pointer to the EF40, thats my kind of tube - thanks Kstagger. I also will look into the 6BR7.

As anyone who follows my input to the forum will realise I am an extreme Frugophile. I therefore can see little benefit in using "popular" valves when more obscure alternatives exist. Fashion has been the ruin of the HIFI hobby.
Many of the EF86's are not excessively expensive at the moment, but they are popular and no longer in production, thats a recipe for prices to continue rising to the sky. Since these valves should last for at least 5yrs, next time I need to go looking for a replacement they could be painfully expensive. Why bother with the stress when choosing something like the EF40 can keep me in cheapsville for ever !!!

Remember there is rarely any sound penalty to be had from keeping to obscure cheap components, if you apply a bit of intelligent judgement that is.

Shoog

[kstagger]

Slam to me is dynamic contrast.

And as far as the Svetlana EF86s - they do have a harsher top-end than the Holland tubes - you'll hear the difference easy enough swapping between the two. For example I've noticed the same kind of difference between the small bottle EH EL34s and an original Mullard XF2.

[rdf]

Wow 7N7, you' weren't kidding. Those look like spectacular tubes. Popularity doesn't always means performance I guess. BTW, having measured the distortion spectra of enough EL84s (for example) from different manufacturers I don't find anything odd about kstagger's description of top end performance differences between EF86s. It's hard to tell an EH EL84 and JJ EL84 were meant to be the same tube from the results.

[dsavitsk]

Originally posted by Shoog
Since these valves should last for at least 5yrs, next time I need to go looking for a replacement they could be painfully expensive.

Call me paranoid, but any time I build something that I like and that uses a cheap tube (and everything I build uses a cheap tube), I tend to buy up enough for a lifetime supply. I just finished up a DAC that uses a quad of 6688's, so I bought these -- the whole box cost less than the output transformers. That should get me ~80,000 hours of enjoyment.

Anyway, isn't the 5879 the same as a EF86, but for $8?

[Wavebourn]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-25-EF86-6...sid=p1638.m118

25 for $130, i.e. $5.20 per tube plus shipment. Other sellers have similar prices. Quite expensive. The rest of ePay sellers have similar prices.

I can ask my seller I buy 6J52P and 6F12P from for quotes if you want.

[7N7]

Originally posted by rdf
Wow 7N7, you' weren't kidding. Those look like spectacular tubes. Popularity doesn't always means performance I guess. BTW, having measured the distortion spectra of enough EL84s (for example) from different manufacturers I don't find anything odd about kstagger's description of top end performance differences between EF86s. It's hard to tell an EH EL84 and JJ EL84 were meant to be the same tube from the results.

Brimar said that 6BR7 and 6BS7 (version with top cap g1 connection) are especially designed to be low noise, always a problem with pentodes. I once had a Marconi ultra-high impedance valve voltmeter (input Z > 90M) this used 6BS7s which suggests that Marconi were being extra careful!

Anyway the 6BR7 is recommended as a replacement for the EF86 in Quad IIs which is why I did it, and I think that it does sound better - and I still have to optimise the operating conditions after which I expect it to be better still.

I have never claimed to have "golden ears" but I cannot tell the difference between EL34s, 5881s and 6L6s in my Quads! There is no apparent difference electrically when run in the amplifiers, and yes I know what the curves say. Suffice it to say that I have used the same cathode resistors throughout.

7N7

[Wavebourn]

6EJ7 looks good on paper as well.