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Old 19th February 2003, 10:36 PM   #21
SY is offline SY  United States
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Tim: you neglected filament power (my 6528 amp used 400 watts before even turning on the B+ supply) and transformer losses. These are sheer waste.

Joel: Power bandwidth is a different thing than frequency response. Low frequency distortion and damping are other weak points. That's why I use a modded Adcom to drive my subwoofers.
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Old 19th February 2003, 11:56 PM   #22
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Default POOR BASS??

Hi,

Quote:
* Poor deep bass. There just isn't enough iron in this world
IMO, that is more the fault of most US speaker systems being so current hungry.

If you need current from tubes go for the OTL designs.

If the amp uses an OPT then there is bound to be a compromise between bass and highs.
You simply can't have both unless you want to bi-amp...that's a different story though.

Cheers,
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Old 20th February 2003, 12:13 AM   #23
SHiFTY is offline SHiFTY  New Zealand
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For me it was also the opportunity to resurrect an antique amp- to take something made 40 years ago, that had been sitting in a dusty attic for about 20 of those years, and making it work as new.

I have restored an old radio, that was also a lot of fun.
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Old 20th February 2003, 01:12 AM   #24
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
that is more the fault of most US speaker systems being so current hungry.
It's not nationality, it's physics. Each octave of bass extension requires a quadrupling of excursion. Excursion takes current. Excursion also means return, which means lots of current snapping back at the amp which must be absorbed.

Highly efficient woofers must of necessity be big, so big that I've never heard a horn with true bass extension (though the fellow who built a concrete monster outside of his house, removing a wall for the mouth might be the exception). So, my American woofer is limited in sensitivity to roughly 95 dB/2.83V/m, which still ain't bad, and is pretty close to as good as it gets for something that will fit into a room but get to 15 Hz. And given the relatively benign impedance curve (doesn't go below 6 ohm), this is a speaker that doesn't need gobs of current. Nonetheless, the sound with transistors is noticeably cleaner than any tube amp I've tried, whether ironed or otled. And I don't think I'm the only person with that experience.
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Old 20th February 2003, 01:26 AM   #25
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Default BASS FREAKS.

Hi,

Quote:
(though the fellow who built a concrete monster outside of his house, removing a wall for the mouth might be the exception).
LOL.

I bet you're refering to a certain Japanese gentleman as described in a certain French mag?

Quote:
Nonetheless, the sound with transistors is noticeably cleaner than any tube amp I've tried, whether ironed or otled. And I don't think I'm the only person with that experience.
The main problem with this setup IMO is marrying the tonal character of the sandamps with the thermionic one...tricky business.

Keep in mind that you, as an US citizen are likely living in a much bigger house than the average European.

Also, most horns were designed as "long throw" speakers needed to fill huge spaces with sound.
Adapting them for home use require a complete redesign.

Cheers,
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Old 20th February 2003, 02:08 AM   #26
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No, actually it was an article in "Audio" perhaps 40 years ago. Though it doesn't surprise me to find that a Japanese fellow has tried this. I would too, if it weren't for the toxic divorce laws here in California.

I don't find tonality to enter into the multiamping question- my sub cuts off at 70 Hz, and the mid-woofer (also driven by a transistor amp) ends in a range (300 Hz) where low-distortion, low Zout tube amps and transistor amps have tonality that I (and my victims in subjective tests) have found to be indistinguishable. Not that I expect you to agree with the last

FWIW, bass players have commented favorably on how string bass is reproduced, finding the overall system superior in that range to anything else they've heard. I don't credit (or debit) the amps in that regard; they just do what they're supposed to do, make a small signal bigger without editorializing. The tough work was the speakers and crossovers.
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Old 20th February 2003, 04:08 AM   #27
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Default Relativity

It is a question of relative efficiency, when it comes to "feelings of environmental guilt".

You can't be telling me that feeling guilty about the planet is the driving force in the balance between tubes or transistors! That is sad indeed.

Tell you what...

The inefficient power supply in that electric car is worse. Better yet, the refrigerated water bath machine for that "panic" chill of the wine you forgot to cool...as the brie baked 10 minutes too long in the oven...now THAT consumed a kilowatt-hour in vain!

And for goodness sakes quit using the automatic dishwasher to preheat the dinner plates!

Let's just enjoy the music.

Don't worry...I'll lift the control rods a few extra millimeters for you.
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Old 23rd February 2003, 08:06 PM   #28
AR2 is offline AR2  United States
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This is very interesting tread. I just started debating with myself which amp to use for my new speaker project:
http://diyaudio.com/forums/showthrea...threadid=10327
200W per ch. mosfet monoblocs that I just finished building for the Lambda bass cabinet, or my trusted 300W monoblocs with 6 of 6550s.
I tested them each, and my choice would be 6550s. With mosfets maybe I have more defined bass, but tubes are just more pleasant. Or lets think this way. Every bass player in the world most likely will use the tube Ampeg amp. What is wrong in replaying it on the same or simillar set up? If guitar amps are all tube ones (Marshal, Fender, VOX...) and if all best mic. preamps are tube ones, are we are trying to add something that doesn't exist with SS amps?
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Old 24th February 2003, 01:43 AM   #29
PassFan is offline PassFan  United States
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I have a small EL84 p-p design that I use with a pair of TLs that I prefer over my A75. It just sounds natural and at the volumes that I listen to, bass is no problem. It also looks cool in the dark. All my kids are older and I have no small animals. I guess I am converted for life I like them so much.
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Old 24th February 2003, 05:29 AM   #30
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Default Re: BASS FREAKS.

Quote:
Originally posted by fdegrove
I bet you're refering to a certain Japanese gentleman as described in a certain French mag?
Never saw that, but i had a client back in my hifi days that had such a beast. B139s. Lowthers as mids, also in front loaded concrete horns. Can't remember what he had on the top.

dave
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