New 12AX7A Pspice model - diyAudio
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Old 12th August 2007, 02:24 PM   #1
eppidei is offline eppidei  Italy
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Default New 12ax7a Pspice model

Hi guys,
I've just developed a new Pspice Model for 12ax7a.It's computationally heavy for the processor but i'm successfully working on "lighter" models.
U can download it fo free at my personal page.
I'm interested in your comments.
Bye
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Old 12th August 2007, 04:48 PM   #2
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Default Spice models with polynomials

eppidei

I tested your model in a ciruit I use to test models by sweeping plate voltage and stepping grid voltage and comparing the results to the data. I swept plate voltage from 0 to 250 Volts and stepped grid voltage from +1 to -5 volts in .5 volt steps.
I also plotted a max power curve of 1.2 Watts.

Here is the result with your active model :

C:\downloads\12AX7A_dream_active.jpg

and here is the result using a Koren type model :

C:\downloads\12AX7_Koren.jpg

The problem with yours is that it is no good at all over about 4 or 5 milliamps. I suspect that this is because you have used polynomials fit to curves, and those curves only went to 4 or 5 milliamps. The problem with curve fitting using polynomials is that the result is only accurate over the range of data you have used, ie you can interpolate with polynomials, but you cannot extrapolate with polynomials. The polynomial just goes off wherevever it wants to outside the range of your data.

I dont like polynomials at all for spice models, but you may use them if you wish.

As the 1.2W power curve shows, 12AX7 tubes will frequently be biased in areas where your model is completely innaccurate.

So, if you are going to use polynomials then you must base them on a much wider range of data. I dont have any good 12AX7 data right now, but perhaps sometime in the next couple of weeks I will be able to take some measurements, and I will post the results
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Old 12th August 2007, 04:59 PM   #3
pftrvlr is offline pftrvlr  United States
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Where can I find the model?
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Old 13th August 2007, 10:19 PM   #4
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I notice my files did not attach properly, so my post doesnt make to much sense, so here is another attempt with the files.





Attached Images
File Type: jpg 12ax7_koren.jpg (56.6 KB, 369 views)
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Old 13th August 2007, 10:23 PM   #5
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OK, that was the result with my model.

Heare is the result of eppidei model
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 12ax7a_dream_active.jpg (54.2 KB, 354 views)
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Old 14th August 2007, 02:05 PM   #6
eppidei is offline eppidei  Italy
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Hi Robert,
thanks for ur comment.I don't use pure polynomial interpolation but u're right the model fits only the RCA curves i Knew.let me know If u have other data .
However i'm preparing new semi-analytical models that will not suffer from this problem.
What do u think about the grid current?
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Old 16th August 2007, 11:33 PM   #7
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Default suggested changes

eppidei :
I havent had time yet to chart some real tube data, but perhaps Saturday or Sunday I will do this.

When I first looked at your model I did not understand what all the resistors and 0 volt sources were for, but then I figured it out why you were using them. You dont have to do it that way in SPICE, instead of using current sources (G) use voltage sources (E), and give names to the nodes which can then be referenced in functions later on, rather than the current through the 0 volt sources. I have attached a file showing what I mean, you will see radically reduces the size of the model.
Attached Files
File Type: txt spice model.txt (16.3 KB, 53 views)
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Old 17th August 2007, 03:06 PM   #8
eppidei is offline eppidei  Italy
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Default model explanation

Robert,
I know.It was my first choice but I had a lot of "Overflow" by Pspice.In the new versions this kind of error it's shown instead of simple convergence problem.I realized that it was due to the fact that interpolation coefficients were too low for voltage sensibility(usually 1 uV).So i decided to use current sources (1 pA) and it works.
If u can,try to sweep input current against grid voltage.Are the input current values meanly correct in your opinion?
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Old 19th August 2007, 09:31 PM   #9
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Default 12AX7A data, including grid current

eppidei :

I measured some 12AX7A tubes today, and I have attached the data from the most typical looking one.

You should be able to use this data to fit your model to a real tube, and to get real grid current modelled.
Attached Files
File Type: zip 12ax7a_data.zip (3.7 KB, 53 views)
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Old 20th August 2007, 02:39 AM   #10
eppidei is offline eppidei  Italy
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Robert,
I'm so grateful to you.I hope to upgrade this model in the next days and to post the results.I hope to post the new kind of model i'm working on too.
If this approach will be successfull i think to be able to apply it to penthodes.
Thanks,Leo.
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