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Old 26th July 2007, 03:53 PM   #1
redyul is offline redyul  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jul 2007

I have a nice challenge, that probably has been common at beginners
I would like to get the max of my bucks and enjoy the best sound
I am coming from a SE 300B custom made (not by me) that soon broke foer defect of the project I believe reason why:
1) I am returning the machine back at full paid price
2) I am looking for something that Is not too customised and rare so that I can find advise
3) I am starting to read and learn electronics so that I will be abvle hopefully in the future to work on and improve what I am buying
I have seen many threads on 845 L1 or L3 (by MR Liang) or 300B SE.

It seems to me that 845 valve circuits provide more power but have less range (usually around 20Khz-25Khz) while 300B usually get to 30Khz-40Khz, all starting

Find below specks of both machines I ahve found on internet:

Power: 9watts RMS x 2 in Class A Single Ended circuit design
Output tube: 300B x 2
Input/Driver tube: DCC90 and 2A3 x 2
Frequency: 10Hz-40KHz +/-3 dB
Signal/Noise Ratio: 90dB
Distortion: less than 1% at full power
Hum: ~1 to 2mV
Rectifing Tube: 5Z3P
Input Jack: 3 groups
burn in time: 50-100 hours
Input Consumption: <150W
Size Dimenson:465 x 175 x 280mm
Weight: 25KG

Power: 20watts RMSx 2 4 ohms 8 ohms
Output tube: 845 x2
Input/Driver tube: 6P3Px 2 6J4Px 2
Frequency: 20Hz-25KHz +/-1 dB
Signal/Noise Ratio: 88dB
Distortion: less than 1% at full power
Rectifier: Diode
Input Jack: ONE
Input Consumption: 350W
Size Dimenson: 550 x 280 x 260 mm
Weight: 38KG

Since I want to go on the route of the DIY for the speakers as well,
would these amp be enough for these speakers below?

Centurion by wilmslow-audio
Treble - ScanSpeak R2904/7000
Midrange - ScanSpeak 15M 4531K00
Bass - 2 x ScanSpeak 18W 8531G00
Enclosure type - 3-way reflex
Frequency response - 29Hz-40kHz
Sensitivity (2.83v/1m) - 92dB
Amp requirement - 50-200w
Impedance - 6 ohm
Internal volume - 70 litres per speaker
Weight - 68Kg per pair
Dimensions (WxHxD) - 1100x260x400mm
Iron-on veneer required - 8 rolls per pair
Hovland MusiCaps upgrade fitted on treble section as standard


thanks for any though and advise
Ideally I would like later on enhance the Amplifier as suggested in many threads on this website, so I am looking for potential as well

Would you think that the money spent is well balanced between speakers and amplifier?

My wife plays violin so I know pretty much how it should sound, I love tubes for the depth and warm sound, best speakers I have heard so far were the B&W 803 on an average amp and CD-DAV converter in a shop where I was able to hear the sound of the bow string on the violin string.
any suggestion on alternative speakers amp combinatino for 2500-3000 pound
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Old 28th July 2007, 05:52 PM   #2
swamp is offline swamp  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Default mr liang 845

I have seen and heard a Music Angel 845 but do not own one. I was impressed with the sound but the build quality is average and not in Mr Liang's league. Mr Liang uses potted output tx, better chassis, better build inside... looking at photos of the MA.

I have wrote an article for the Mr Liang here with pictures... I am glad I bought the Mr Liang instead and it is a good starting point to make something really hi-end.

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Old 28th July 2007, 05:52 PM   #3
swamp is offline swamp  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
Default speakers

One further point I missed. These will easily drive your speakers. My 845 is driving 89db monitor audio studio 20se and a friends is driving some older wharfedale 710's that are only 87db and it has no trouble. Your new speakers will be a good match being more sensitive.


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Old 29th July 2007, 12:37 AM   #4
redyul is offline redyul  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
I did read your article and was the one of the first that focus my attention . I thank you for yout review (including the cork FIX!)

I have another question: would oyu think the speakers are over specked? do you think it's a good balance? or would you suggeste other speakers?

any risk of underpowering the speakers or clipping I believe is called?
thank in advance
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Old 30th July 2007, 10:38 AM   #5
swamp is offline swamp  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Manchester, UK
I do not know how much your speakers cost, I am guessing they are quite an expensive kit from WA. Those drive units are supposed to be very good. I really would not worry too much about the speakers and yours will no way be underpowered with 20W into 92db/w. I

I use Mr liang on a pair of speakers that cost 2K in their day and a friend has a pair of Martin Logan's and another using his on a pair of very high efficiency Tannoy's . I think the Mr Liang will be suited to hi-end speakers once you get some better driver tubes. Very revealing speakers do show Mr Liangs faults esp the treble not being clean. On speakers warm and rolled off sounding then its faults are not as glaring. I think Mr Liang can easily be sorted with the better tubes and maybe a couple of cap upgrades. I am going to try some new tubes soon so will add to the article.

You would be hard pressed to buy a better amp at the price. The cash saved can be spent on tweaks and upgrades. have heard it on a few speakers now and it always sounds entertaining to my ears.

I think people get too worried about power output. I have heard low power single ended amps drive quite in-efficient speaker and still sound very good if not loud.
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Old 2nd August 2007, 03:16 PM   #6
redyul is offline redyul  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
thanks, it is more re-assuring.

I have not yet finalised my speaker decision, since I have read another thread on this site were they were reported missing some chemistry, although components are really good:

here some more positive comments:

costs is indeed around 2000 pound, and is basically the costs of the components:


so I am still looking around
I look forward to hear about the tweeks and improvement on the MR liang.
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Old 2nd August 2007, 09:18 PM   #7
k9vap is offline k9vap  United Kingdom
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Join Date: Aug 2006

You looked at the Bastani DIY range?

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Old 2nd August 2007, 09:42 PM   #8
Stevie342000 is offline Stevie342000  United Kingdom
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Default Mr Liang for me for sure


I have a Mr Liang and can agree it needs a change of tubes...I put General Electric 6SJ7s in mine, along with new production Tung sol 5881s, the Tung sols lasted about 2 months...one of the tubes went dead, supplier replaced and restarted guarantee from date of the new tube arriving......

The change of tubes have indeed made it sound better the only thing to be aware of with the 5881s is that you seem to loose a bit of gain.....but overall it sounds a lot better.......

I am waiting for a set of Svetlana 6L6GCs to replace the tung sols just in case they go **** end up again...must say they are an improvement on the 6J4P which were replaced with 6SJ7s as the Chinese tubes had a nice lightning display on power up sometimes only one tube always the left channel hence the change of tubes.....

The next tube improvement is some of those Shuguang Amperex 845 replicas..some one on German group told me that Metal Plate 845s do not work in this amp......anyone? The Amperex replicas are supposed to be the best upgrade for this tube...much more like the old RCA 845s in sound and construction......

Perhaps later in the day I will take a look inside and replace those coupling capacitors inside just to help with that top end...I must say it works for me though makes digital palatable and vinyl is just awesome......

Steve in the UK
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Old 18th August 2007, 09:30 PM   #9
ictmanager is offline ictmanager  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
I have replaced the 845s with higher quality copper base ones...was it 845Bs?
I will try the 5881 and 6sj7 replacements at some time, but even so I find this a terrific amp.
I use it in a system which is:
Krell KPS20i feeding a Krell preamp which sends the signal to a 2 way xo. The bass goes to an ATC amp then to 2 ATC 8" bass speakers. The middle and top goes to the Liang then to some ATC SCM10 satellite speakers with Tannoy supertweeters.
I have a lot of spare valves around cos I work with guitar amps, so need to find some time to try the substitutions out.
The Liang 845 is SUCH an incredible amp for the price though....comparable with at least 3K British american valve amps. ANd I've had a few. This one, as someone else said, is a keeper!
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