Valves/tubes interest a wide variety of people, and this is useful because the young can benefit from the direct experience of those "rich in years" ("old farts," if you like). Please note, however, that we "old farts" treat language as a precision tool and are irritated by people typing "i" when they should type "I" and using other examples of textspeak.
Moral: If you want help, remember not to annoy the people most able to give it.
Moral: If you want help, remember not to annoy the people most able to give it.
EC8010 said:
even if I agree with "Moral" from your post , I have just two complains (observations , to be precise) :
1. even if I don't know exact issue (case,whatever) why I have impression that you are probably more iritated with someone's attitude,than with lack of one of 3R skills ;
2.be genuine old fart ( and - just for record , I feel exactly as one) and just say names of offenders.........
EC is just in one of his grumpy moods. That is, he's acting perfectly normal for him.
My pet peeves are the argumentative responses from someone I'm trying to help and the constant, constant, constant misuse of the term "bias" to mean "idle current." Not to mention the guy who will spend a thousand bucks on some rare output tubes but won't get an oscilloscope. Or the guy with a $2 tube who wants to make his amp accommodate it no matter what the cost. Oh, yes, and the guy who won't do his homework and wants everything spoon-fed. "Well, that's nice, but can you recalculate that for a gain of 10?" And while I'm complaining...
His name is Legion.
My pet peeves are the argumentative responses from someone I'm trying to help and the constant, constant, constant misuse of the term "bias" to mean "idle current." Not to mention the guy who will spend a thousand bucks on some rare output tubes but won't get an oscilloscope. Or the guy with a $2 tube who wants to make his amp accommodate it no matter what the cost. Oh, yes, and the guy who won't do his homework and wants everything spoon-fed. "Well, that's nice, but can you recalculate that for a gain of 10?" And while I'm complaining...
His name is Legion.
While I am certainly on your side EC, I find there are more annoying things than those listed in your post. SY hinted at it. It's the misuse of words.
Any old woofer nowadays seems to be called a sub. I've seen 4" units called subs. I'm not as old or farty as some here but a sub has an Fs of 20Hz or below. That's the only qualification I've ever known.
A dynamic or other transducer capable of reproducing a reasonable level of subsonic frequencies.
Where did we begin to stray?
Any old woofer nowadays seems to be called a sub. I've seen 4" units called subs. I'm not as old or farty as some here but a sub has an Fs of 20Hz or below. That's the only qualification I've ever known.
A dynamic or other transducer capable of reproducing a reasonable level of subsonic frequencies.
Where did we begin to stray?
Re: Re: Spelling, capitalization, and grammar.
Pfffffft. My pet peeve? Prescriptive grammarians. The point of language is to communicate, and if you understand, that's good enough
There are at least 2 and arguably 3 errors in this short post bemoaning such errors -- though perhaps spelling is not on EC8010's list.
This one is even worse. Before you guys agree with something, make sure you know what you are agreeing to.
Pfffffft. My pet peeve? Prescriptive grammarians. The point of language is to communicate, and if you understand, that's good enough
ray_moth said:I agree with EC8010. Inattention to grammar, puctuation and capitalization are irritating. I don't mean people to whom English is a foreign language, I'm talking about people who should know better. You know who you are!
There are at least 2 and arguably 3 errors in this short post bemoaning such errors -- though perhaps spelling is not on EC8010's list.
Zen Mod said:even if I agree with "Moral" from your post , I have just two complains (observations , to be precise) :
1. even if I don't know exact issue (case,whatever) why I have impression that you are probably more iritated with someone's attitude,than with lack of one of 3R skills ;
2.be genuine old fart ( and - just for record , I feel exactly as one) and just say names of offenders.........
This one is even worse. Before you guys agree with something, make sure you know what you are agreeing to.
Gosh, I think it would be terrible for someone to miss out on the fun of experimenting with tube circuits just because they have trouble with spelling or grammer. I also think that someone could be very good at one thing and have trouble with another. My spelling and grammer leaves much to be desired, but I think I can hold my own slinging solder. 
never expected this here. 
It is a popular debate in german boards and there it is meant dead serious.
Not only grumpy old men complain about the youth, but a broad audience is annoyed by the attitude of a few. That it is...the attitude or lack of it. Nobody complains about missing knowledge or skills.
regards
Jürgen
It is a popular debate in german boards and there it is meant dead serious.
Not only grumpy old men complain about the youth, but a broad audience is annoyed by the attitude of a few. That it is...the attitude or lack of it. Nobody complains about missing knowledge or skills.
regards
Jürgen
As long as they don't use 'U' and 'R' in place of 'you' and 'are' I don't care much.
There's a difference between AOL'er noobs that are just dumb, and ESL people... We have a lot of members that don't have english as their primary language... They need some slack cut.
Also, whether a post is spelled properly, and capitalized properly, doesn't take away from it's data, unless it's damn AOLspeak
OMG I NEED BUILD AMP
U R COOL FRIEND
There's a difference between AOL'er noobs that are just dumb, and ESL people... We have a lot of members that don't have english as their primary language... They need some slack cut.
Also, whether a post is spelled properly, and capitalized properly, doesn't take away from it's data, unless it's damn AOLspeak
OMG I NEED BUILD AMP
U R COOL FRIEND
Native vs. non-native
I think EC was careful to make the distinction. My written French and German are horrible, so I'm more than a little sympathetic to folks who are daring and/or desperate enough to write in another language. I'm continually amazed at how well people do it...
In any event, that's different than the fellow who will only communicate communicate via texting shorthand unreadable by just the old farts he needs to help him with his problem. Or the dreaded ALL CAPS GUY.
POS GTG
I think EC was careful to make the distinction. My written French and German are horrible, so I'm more than a little sympathetic to folks who are daring and/or desperate enough to write in another language. I'm continually amazed at how well people do it...
In any event, that's different than the fellow who will only communicate communicate via texting shorthand unreadable by just the old farts he needs to help him with his problem. Or the dreaded ALL CAPS GUY.
POS GTG
I can't spell worth a darn, however my kids are terrific spellers because they were taught "real" phonics at home. Grammar is a different story, as it makes what you're trying to say much clearer.
Here's an example:
A woman, without her man, is nothing.
A woman: without her, man is nothing.
You tell me which one is conveying what I really mean.
Best Regards,
TerryO
Here's an example:
A woman, without her man, is nothing.
A woman: without her, man is nothing.
You tell me which one is conveying what I really mean.
Best Regards,
TerryO
LOL [not irony, honest] never expected to see a 'rant' thread on here!
Anyway, I have to say, although I agree with your point (people should, for example, use the Shift key as well as the key for the first letter of their new sentence), from several years of bumming around various 'net communities, the 'old farts' are almost as bad as us youngsters!
Aside from people with bad English due to it being a 2nd/3rd/beyond language, the standard on here really is *good* (compared to, say, gamer forums).
Hope I'm not coming across as one of those who seems to require spoon-feeding! (I always try to stick my posts up in a "Can I just run this past you..." format to show I've read around it even if just a little)
Also, it seems some people take great glee (or perhaps do it without meaning to) from making their posts as obscure as possible for us newbies to decipher, notwithstanding bad grammar! Several times now I've had to write-off a thread as 'useless' purely because the reply that should have contained the information was just a collection of facts or suggestions without explanations that could just maybe stop a redundant post appearing ("Your Rp is too low.")
This applies to websites as much as forums, I guess...
Anyway, I have to say, although I agree with your point (people should, for example, use the Shift key as well as the key for the first letter of their new sentence), from several years of bumming around various 'net communities, the 'old farts' are almost as bad as us youngsters!
Aside from people with bad English due to it being a 2nd/3rd/beyond language, the standard on here really is *good* (compared to, say, gamer forums).
Hope I'm not coming across as one of those who seems to require spoon-feeding! (I always try to stick my posts up in a "Can I just run this past you..." format to show I've read around it even if just a little
)Also, it seems some people take great glee (or perhaps do it without meaning to) from making their posts as obscure as possible for us newbies to decipher, notwithstanding bad grammar! Several times now I've had to write-off a thread as 'useless' purely because the reply that should have contained the information was just a collection of facts or suggestions without explanations that could just maybe stop a redundant post appearing ("Your Rp is too low.")
This applies to websites as much as forums, I guess...
The proliferation of text messaging and yes, even forums, has further degraded the already sad state of affairs with America's use (or lack thereof) of proper grammar, spelling, and vocabulary.
ONLY speaking of Americans- not those smarter than me who know another language.
We are soooo poor in language, and the careful use of correct terminology, as SY has stated. Anyone read any George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Shakespeare, or "Common Sense" lately?
They use sentences 125 words long, and won't repeat a word. Phenomenal vocabulary that I have to look up to understand. It's difficult to even follow; it's almost like another language.
Best we can do today is 'cool', 'awesome', and 'great' for expletives (if I've used that properly).
I write technical reports every day (EE), and not only appreciate the proper use of language, but recognize my 3rd grade abilities. Attention to the details will expand one's knowledge, and ability to transfer information to the eager listener. Let's all try to do better.
ONLY speaking of Americans- not those smarter than me who know another language.
We are soooo poor in language, and the careful use of correct terminology, as SY has stated. Anyone read any George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Shakespeare, or "Common Sense" lately?
They use sentences 125 words long, and won't repeat a word. Phenomenal vocabulary that I have to look up to understand. It's difficult to even follow; it's almost like another language.
Best we can do today is 'cool', 'awesome', and 'great' for expletives (if I've used that properly).
I write technical reports every day (EE), and not only appreciate the proper use of language, but recognize my 3rd grade abilities. Attention to the details will expand one's knowledge, and ability to transfer information to the eager listener. Let's all try to do better.
Wow I don't know how to take this.
English is my native language nor have I ever been a good speller.
Also my grammar leaves a lot to be desired, but I never thought I would be alienated do to this fact.
Although I do think the instant messaging short hand detrimental to the english speaking children of this world.
I think this post could make some people afraid to post a question in fear of reprisal of errors.
Nick
English is my native language nor have I ever been a good speller.
Also my grammar leaves a lot to be desired, but I never thought I would be alienated do to this fact.
Although I do think the instant messaging short hand detrimental to the english speaking children of this world.
I think this post could make some people afraid to post a question in fear of reprisal of errors.
Nick
zigzagflux said:
You left out one of my favorite writers, namely Thomas Babington Macaulay.
Often cited as being second only to Shakespeare, at least in the English language, it's an absolute delight to read his works.
Then outspake brave Horatius.
The captain of the gate:
"To every man upon this earth
Death cometh soon or late.
And how can man die better
Than facing fearful odds
For the ashes of his fathers
And the temples of his gods?
Quoted from: The Lays of Ancient Rome
Best Regards,
TerryO
I have to agree with the points put forth. There is a question of intelligibility here. Many times I have struggled to get the meaning of a post is a mass of letters and words (?).
no capitals or periods to end a thought while i babel on u r having trouble deciphering the dribble add spelling micakes just makes things more frustratin ;-)
Often, I am tempted to simply delete those posts.
Yes, attitude when trying to give someone a hand will normally set me off as well.
-Chris
no capitals or periods to end a thought while i babel on u r having trouble deciphering the dribble add spelling micakes just makes things more frustratin ;-)
Often, I am tempted to simply delete those posts.
Yes, attitude when trying to give someone a hand will normally set me off as well.
-Chris
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