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Old 22nd June 2007, 04:31 PM   #11
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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what speakers do you use?
My system consists of a pair of homebrew 11 cu ft Onken cabinets with 16" Iconic woofers, JBL mid horns and JBL annular ring horn tweeters, efficiency including room effects from placement puts them in the vicinity of 100dBspl/W/m (about 97dBspl in free space)

The amplifier is a stereo 300B SE I designed and built back in 2004 and has a continuous output power of around 7Wrms per channel before the onset of compression and then clipping. Output power is about 9 - 10W @ 5 % thd (ouch) and at these power levels spls > 110dBspl at my listening position, totally clean is somewhere around 106 - 107dBspl. I suspect this is loud enough for most people..

(The above numbers are to the best of my recollection and were actually measured with my radio shack sound meter. My listening position is about 2.5 meters out from the speakers.)

Incidentally these high spl levels are sufficient to cause severe hearing damage in very short order, sustained listening at levels of much over 90dBspl will also cause longer term hearing loss.

My normal listening levels are probably in the mid 80's and depending on musical taste and bass content you may be able to get away with relatively low power levels even with relatively low efficiency speakers.

For years I listened to a pair of 91dBspl/w/m speakers with a 1.6Wrms per channel 45 based SE amplifier in my secondary system and rarely found myself wanting for more power.
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
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Old 22nd June 2007, 08:11 PM   #12
jduffy is offline jduffy  United States
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Originally posted by kstagger

For the future? Electrostats? or some type of OB speaker.
Open baffle also interest me. I listened to an amazing setup with the Hawthorne OBs and was quite impressed. The music seemed to be coming from everywhere as opposed to a sense of the stage in front you.
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Old 22nd June 2007, 10:38 PM   #13
andyjevans is offline andyjevans  United Kingdom
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I built some 19 litre cabinets with very heavy 3 layer walls and a thick U shape aluminium section for the front plate. I stuck a simple Monacor 130AL 5 inch full range speaker in each and it hasn't come out for the last two years. It's ridiculously cheap, but very clean and clear. Far from perfect but what it does it does very well. Bass is adequate, and treble is all there. My intention was to replace it with a Jordan unit but I'm reasonably happy as it stands. It's probably about 89 to 90 db.
With this setup I can use a 3 stage amp, all DHT.
1G4GT mu=9
112A mu=9
2a3 outputs.

I'm pretty happy with the clarity of this setup - it's very revealing - so I'm not very motivated to go back to building crossovers. In fact I'm not motivated at all! Full range units can work.
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Old 22nd June 2007, 11:13 PM   #14
316a is offline 316a  England
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Hi ,
I went for a 2 way . I've got Tad TD4001 on 340Hz Azurahorns on top and Seas CA25FEY in a 120litre EBS alignment cabs for bass (approx 93dB) . Amp is a zero NFB PP amp , about 8 watts a channel . I'm still tweaking the crossover after nine months of use and I had to implement a notch filter for the Tads after much frustration . The Seas were a stop-gap , I'm now keen to use the Usher 15HM once funds allow (15" 95dB 1w/1m) . Designing speakers is an art I'm yet to master but what I can say is that if you build with valves watts will be precious . Sensitive speakers for low powered amps always mean large boxes if you want any sort of decent bass . There's also the zero NFB issue , some speakers seem to want to be driven by a voltage source and sound farty with some valve amps . Good luck


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Old 22nd June 2007, 11:36 PM   #15
rdf is offline rdf  Canada
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Originally posted by kevinkr
For years I listened to a pair of 91dBspl/w/m speakers with a 1.6Wrms per channel 45 based SE amplifier in my secondary system and rarely found myself wanting for more power.
EL86 SE driving alnico Tannoy Gold 12 inchers. Put my Mac240/Apogee Centaur Minor combo in the closet years ago.
Ears aren't microphones.
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Old 23rd June 2007, 12:46 AM   #16
Tubelab_com is offline Tubelab_com  United States
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I listened to an amazing setup with the Hawthorne OBs and was quite impressed. The music seemed to be coming from everywhere as opposed to a sense of the stage in front you.
It is kind of spooky when you first experience it. The bass has a weird way of projecting itself into the living room of the house across the street. It is louder inside their house, than outside in the street between our houses. Both houses are closed up with AC on.

I needed a set of speakers that fit in well with Sherri's decorating scheme in the living room, which contains a lot of antiques. She actually came up with the idea of using old radios for speaker cabinets. I found a matching pair of Zenith console radios from 1941. I made new front baffles for them and installed a pair of Hawthorne Silver Iris drivers. I saved all of the old radio parts, so they could be restored if I ever need to. These are 96db drivers, so they don't need a whole lot of power, but they claim a 100 watt rating. They could be deadly at this power level. A "HiFi guitar amp" is in the works with one of these.

I usually use a TubelabSE with 45's (or NX-483's) which makes about 2 WPC. This is sufficient for most music in a relatively quiet room. The detail and spookyness factor really stands out with this combo. The SimpleSE with cranked KT88's in UL (15 WPC) is extremely loud and the bass is amazing. Remember SE amps are supposed to be weak in the bass department. I use this amp when I feel like loud rock. I dragged the 300Beast (P-P) amp out and hooked it up, but it died on power up. It looks like one of the electrolytics in the power supply shorted out. I haven't had time to fix it.
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Old 23rd June 2007, 04:12 AM   #17
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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what speakers do you use?
I have a parade of speakers we are working on... 91 > 95 dB typically ... most commonly used amp is 5W RH84... i can make it strain, but i rarely want to play that loud... room is pretty big -- just under 10k ft^3

community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
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Old 23rd June 2007, 09:13 AM   #18
radiotron is offline radiotron  New Zealand
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Hi all,
Speakers are so much of personal preference - like coffee, automobiles and many things...
Efficiency is all good in the tube world, down here I have a pair of pretty straight Klipsch Heresy Mk I's, 96dB/1 watt, driven by a SE 6336 with UBT-1 opts, prob about 5 watts depending state of lunar cycle, they're quite loud enough for most things unless there is a desire for something really raucous... But the midrange horn is a vicious wee beastie - sure get to hear mistakes with them! Open baffle is interesting, a friend has followed that path for bit, but I still enjoy the vividness of the ageing Heresys, very informative, and right now some old Al Green recordings are putting the funk back in the trunk!

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Old 23rd June 2007, 10:28 AM   #19
jarthel is offline jarthel  Australia
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Originally posted by radiotron
Hi all,
Speakers are so much of personal preference - like coffee, automobiles and many things...

and I have never asked about the sonic quality about the speakers

As I said, I want to get a "feel" of power VS efficiency rating
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Old 23rd June 2007, 11:12 AM   #20
DoctorDyna is offline DoctorDyna  United States
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My 2 channel setup has 2 main and 2 passive bipolar subs. My mains are HiVi 7" aluminum/magnesium midbass units paired with Vifa (Peerless now) XT25TG30-04 tweeters. Crossover point is 3900Hz (6db/oct). I'd say the efficiency is somewhere around 88 or 89dbwm.

The front subs are bipolar, using 2x Peerless 10"s in each cabinet, one set facing inwards and one facing front. Wiring is done series 90 deg out of phase. It's silly to mention the efficiency of the 10"s because they are ungodly more efficient in their current configuration. Subwoofer crossover point to the mains is 80Hz, 12db/oct on the LPF and 6db/oct on the HPF.

The whole mess is driven by an Anthem MCA2, 2x 200w. I'm still looking around for a 5 channel version so I can drive my 7.1 setup as well, but I digress.
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