I'ld like to inform after your experiences with volume pots and their impact on sonics, especially stepped atts vs carbon pots. There seem to be very mixed opinions about this topic, the classical story ascribing dramatically 'clearer' sound to higher cost of pot (from 1$ ratshack --> Alps --> stepped attenuator), the alternative story content with simple and cheap carbon pots (with preferance to some type)...
I myself haven't noticed any dramatic sonic signature even of the cheapest pots. I'll soon get my first taste of stepped attenuators (diy ladder type, built from scratch) but missing direct comparison I really don't expect an overwhelming performance of the ladders.
Please feel free
Simon
I myself haven't noticed any dramatic sonic signature even of the cheapest pots. I'll soon get my first taste of stepped attenuators (diy ladder type, built from scratch) but missing direct comparison I really don't expect an overwhelming performance of the ladders.
Please feel free
Simon
It's very easy to find out. Simply build two identical amps, one with a stepper and one with a pot. Then A/B test them (blind or not, doesn't matter). Many people tell me that there is indeed a difference in sound quality, with the cheaper pots sounding livier and superior to the stepped attenuators.
I'm awaiting delivery of one of these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Stepped-100K-...ryZ73369QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem all the way from Hong kong. It is going in to a passive preamp and replacing an Alps Blue so I'll post my results when the time comes.
I think the key advantages of stepped attenuators over potentiometers as volume controls are:
* accurate tracking of stereo controls, giving better balance between channels, especially at low settings;
* avoiding possible noise due to poor contact between the wipers and tracks in worn or substandard pots.
Beyond this, there may be other advantages to be gained from using high quality resistors in attenuators, I don't know.
* accurate tracking of stereo controls, giving better balance between channels, especially at low settings;
* avoiding possible noise due to poor contact between the wipers and tracks in worn or substandard pots.
Beyond this, there may be other advantages to be gained from using high quality resistors in attenuators, I don't know.
I'm really sensitive to balance, and ganged pots don't do that well at low levels. How can you have good imaging when the balance is off? Admittedly, the high end pots are darn good, for a price. If carbon pots are superior, then carbon resistors should be the resistor of choice for the rest of the circuit. Hmmm. I'll take a properly made step attenuator over pots any day of the week
'Eusebius said:
I would be VERY interested in your opinion of the ALPS 'blue' Vs the 'black'. I've never got round to trying the black and often wondered if it was worth the extra. It looks a little better made from the outside but it's what's inside that counts.
I've always liked the Alps blue. The matching and therefore imaging is superb except for the very lowest settings. It can be quite annoying late at night when I have to have louder than I need just to preserve the stereo image. I've spent many nights listening with my head tilted to compensate!!
I'm looking forward to using a stepped attenuator but I am a little concerned that 23 steps may not be enough. I can always modify it later.
I don't know that there's much difference between black and blue Alps. Of the ones I have the blue tracks better, funnily enough. you can improve the sound by putting good resistors across from signal to wiper and wiper to earth. I have 250k alps which I've reduced by using 68k resistors.
I've never had any problem with 12 steps myself - don't understand how you need to be more accurate, but then I'm a pretty flexible guy.
I've never had any problem with 12 steps myself - don't understand how you need to be more accurate, but then I'm a pretty flexible guy.
I believe both Alps pots use plastic tracks and not carbon.
This is carbon: http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/setpage.pl?http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/dyndok.pl?dok=2012603.htm&lang=en
This is carbon: http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/setpage.pl?http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/dyndok.pl?dok=2012603.htm&lang=en
Eusebius said:
I have tried this myself I can attest to that.
When one of my ALPS blue broke, I had to buy a cheap ( < $1) generic 100K dual mini volume control and I used 68K Riken using the above method and I can't hear a degradation in sonics from the ALPS.
One friend who has a DACT claims that his rigged (as above) ALPS blue sounds the same. He sold his DACT.
I'm using a Goldpoint Mini-V 100K series-type with my current DIY preamp - first time I've ever laid down that kind of cash for a volume control - but I've been very happy with the sound - especially the low level tracking.
I was at first skeptical if 23 steps would be enough - but no complaints so far. It seems to have a slightly better sound than the Noble and/or ALPS I've used before - but it is a different preamp design than my last two I built - so it's hard to tell what differences I am hearing between the different pots. The Mini-V is also surprisingly compact with the SMD resistors.
I was at first skeptical if 23 steps would be enough - but no complaints so far. It seems to have a slightly better sound than the Noble and/or ALPS I've used before - but it is a different preamp design than my last two I built - so it's hard to tell what differences I am hearing between the different pots. The Mini-V is also surprisingly compact with the SMD resistors.
stepped attenuators feel really notchy. i do think they sound cleaner than carbon pots, but don't notice any difference between a good TKD pot and a Goldpoint stepped attenuator. The TKD pot blows away the stepped attenuator in terms of feel and smoothness, and number of steps (infinite).
The cheaper Alps pots (the tiny one below the Alps blue) has a lively sound, but not as clean. Very strange that I am noticing these things. I don't think it is placebo, but will do a blind test eventually just to make sure.
The cheaper Alps pots (the tiny one below the Alps blue) has a lively sound, but not as clean. Very strange that I am noticing these things. I don't think it is placebo, but will do a blind test eventually just to make sure.
I prefer to add a resistor on each side of the wiper - input and ground - because when the volume is full on the input resistor bypasses the pot. Since the signal goes through both it should clean it up a bit. I use log pots, therefore, rather than the law-faking linear types. I actually prefer a stepped attenuator with detents - when you use a pair of them it's easy to get them matching with detents as you turn the volume up and down.
cotdt,...May I ask which TKD you are speaking of..?. I have not used all the volume controles out there, but have alot of them. My take on it is this, When I had my Dact I always found something way to clinical & streyral about it, very strange. I am not a huge fan of steps in mono's or in stereo controle's. I always think my channle balance is off, no matter what I do, I run alot of PEC, but just had one go bad with little use & am skeptical on them now.& they are NOT smooth. I just installed a 100K ALPS RK18, the little black one's & I love the thing & would like to get more of them, but seem very hard to source for USA buyer's. I don't want to pay double Euro prices. SO I am on carbon hunt. These controles are going in 26 & 27 tube preamps,. I prefer mono controles, but will buy 2 stereo unit & just use 1 side of them.I prefer to adjust my L & R preciselly the way I like it. Basically I find something about Carbon pots I like over any stepped attenuator I have, or even a DACT, so the hunt is on, & I need more than a few of them.
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