James Transformers JS-6113HS vsEdcorCXSE25-8-5K for SimpleSE - diyAudio
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Old 22nd April 2009, 07:13 PM   #1
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Default James Transformers JS-6113HS vsEdcorCXSE25-8-5K for SimpleSE

I have noticed other posts for OP transformers for the SimpleSE.
I would like to ask peoples opinions about these two specific transformers.
James Transformers JS-6113HS

They are both the same cost, within a few bucks.
As a nubie I am having trouble compairing the two.
So any opinions would be great. If you were building the SimpleSE(as a nubie) which would you use and why?


Cheers Ron.
In my limited expierence never pet a burning dog.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 07:30 PM   #2
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The Edcor weighs 11 pounds. The James weighs 2.9 pounds.

Heavy transformer usually equates to lots of iron in the core, lots of copper in the winding. You should get higher power handling and better freedom from core saturation. There should be plenty of Henries in the Edcor. I would expect the Edcor would give superior performance on the low frequency end of the spectrum. The James' 60mA maximum rating is a little low if you want to use KT88 in your Simple SE. The KT88 will typically run anywhere from 70 to 100 mA. Really, the James 6123 is the transformer I would compare to the big Edcor, not the 6113.

Of course, there is such a thing as "too much of a good thing". Too much copper on the winding results in too much insertion loss. There are mysterious effects going on with the flux in the core, ranging from hysteresis to minimum required excitation voltage. The way the windings are layed down on the bobbin has a big effect on the transformers performance, and how the primary and secondary windings are interleaved is critical. I don't even begin to understand the most obvious secrets of transformer winding black magic. I do know enough to say that "the biggest one" is not necessarily the best transformer.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 07:35 PM   #3
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One big difference is the wattage. The Edcor is rated for 25W and the James is a 10W transformer. The James 6123 is a closer match to the Edcor in terms of wattage. Higher wattage transformers are typically larger and have flat response at lower Hz.

Another difference is that the James transformer has two primary taps so that you can use tubes that need 3.5K load and 5K load by just unsoldering a couple of wires and resoldering. The Edcor has a 5k tap only.

I have a pair of james 6123's that I am currently building into the Tubelab SE, and I need to source a pr of transformers for the Simple SE also, so I am also curious if anyone has tried these.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 08:20 PM   #4
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Thank you, both. I have read some things about the really biggins having some side effects of being just really big.
The James 6123 here:

This set, the 6123's, is another quantum step up in price at $275, so another $125+- $5, more so it is getting out of my wallets comfort zone for now.
So, with the above info would you recommend a smaller Edcor since the bigger Jams is off my radar. I am also thinking of the poor mailman who has to lug a pair of 11 pounders to my door step. Cheers Ron.
In my limited expierence never pet a burning dog.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 10:09 PM   #5
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It also appears that the James Transformers have multiple secondary taps (4-8 ohm for the 6113 and 4-8-16 ohm for the 6123). With the Edcors, you have to pick 4 or 8 ohm when you order (single secondary)

The James appear to be potted (I think), and the Edcors appear not to be potted, so all of these things add up to the additional $$ for the James.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 10:19 PM   #6
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whilst I love james build quality, and the manufacturing 'legacy' they have, I would opt for the edcor..

1/ I had the james, they were a bit small, and they didn't sound amazing to me, in fact they sounded as they looked, small a little thin and not a lot of low end, all in all a bit bland sounding.

I have heard great reprots on the larger ones tho.

2/ the edcors are nearer you and shipping SHOULD be cheaper, plus its bang for your dollar.

I vote the edcors defo. I wouldn't buy those james again, the 6123s yes, not those. I am sure the edcors will be great, I think there's a lot of rubbish spouted about transformers

1/ There is absolutely no correlation between conductance/resistance of wire, and sound quality.

correlation, there is no proof silver wire sounds better, its simply more valuable in jewellery as its rarer and more expensive, there is no proof is sounds better.

2/ there is no proof equally that a different core is better.

viz a hi B, an amorphous, a nickel or cobalt sounds superior, JUST because its more permeable.

why should that make it sound better?


of course the materials are rarer, thus more expensive, giving the makers a reason to market them harder as they can make obscene prices, and its in there interest, but there is again no proof whatsover or there sonic advantage based on one electrical/magnetic parameter.

There is no proof these materials sound better than M6 silicon steel done properly.

all a tranny is,. is a core, an air gap if SE and a coil with insulation.

all it needs is significant interleaves to reach a defined spec.

the rest is pure magic. that's all there is to it.

a core, and a coil.

that's it.

I will make this into a post, too.
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Old 23rd April 2009, 04:37 AM   #7
rlschow is offline rlschow  United States
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The Edcor people have a legacy of their own going back to Altec/Peerless (who definitely knew how to wind good iron). Last time I talked to them they were more than happy to do custom windings for other than their standard primary or secondary impedances for a modest upcharge.
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Old 23rd April 2009, 12:11 PM   #8
tigrine is offline tigrine  Canada
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Hi Ron,

I,m a newbie to and I built two tubelab Simple SE amp.

One with Tango U-808(OPT) and the other (Simple SE 2) with the James JS-6123HS (OPT). I prefer the sound with the James, it has more bass. Not a lot but just enough to make the difference.

Album here: http://picasaweb.google.ca/TigrineAudio

I never heard the Edcor but the Simple Se with the James are playing very well. The sound is excellent a lot of details and well balanced and soft.

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Old 23rd April 2009, 04:22 PM   #9
rdf is offline rdf  Canada
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Originally posted by tigrine
I prefer the sound with the James, it has more bass.
The DC-coupled 2A3 amp on my bench running a JS-6113HS (5K tap, 50 ma standing bias) is essentially flat from 10 Hz to past 50kHz. Current test audio includes a 24-bit recording of a shuttle launch and a fireworks display. It does all right by me.
Ears aren't microphones.
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Old 24th April 2009, 02:55 AM   #10
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Thank you all for your great input. However I have still not decided.
BUT all the info you all have provided is great and gives me the feeling I can make a informed decision.
Cheers Ron
In my limited expierence never pet a burning dog.
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