Hi,
a few farmers and keen gardeners have said that removing stones from the top soil will ruin the drainage. i.e. the top soil becomes waterlogged.
Is that true?
On what basis is that statement founded?
I plan to plant a grass lawn (not cannabis) and I'm removing the stones at the surface to give a nice layer for seeding. The top soil is quite sandy with much gravel and grit, almost no clay fraction and low fraction of silt.
Should I put the stones back in?
a few farmers and keen gardeners have said that removing stones from the top soil will ruin the drainage. i.e. the top soil becomes waterlogged.
Is that true?
On what basis is that statement founded?
I plan to plant a grass lawn (not cannabis) and I'm removing the stones at the surface to give a nice layer for seeding. The top soil is quite sandy with much gravel and grit, almost no clay fraction and low fraction of silt.
Should I put the stones back in?
Top soil is not the surface of the soil but rather a unspecified depth of below the surface before you hit the next layer down.
As you are just removing the stones etc from the surface there should be no problems - I can't see Glenneagles having rocks and stones all over the course!
The stones etc give the soil below some 'structure' which stops it compacting overly and allow water to run/collect depending on the climate.
Just rake the top over, tamp it down and lay your seed. You can add sand to the top surfece but it sounds like you already have.
Have fun.
As you are just removing the stones etc from the surface there should be no problems - I can't see Glenneagles having rocks and stones all over the course!
The stones etc give the soil below some 'structure' which stops it compacting overly and allow water to run/collect depending on the climate.
Just rake the top over, tamp it down and lay your seed. You can add sand to the top surfece but it sounds like you already have.
Have fun.
If your soil is sandy, I don't think you will have problems with drainage, possibly quite the opposite. More likely you need to add organic mat'l like compost, etc....to retain water.
If you are serious aboutr it, you may be able to ask someone at your local college horticulture department, or pay a small fee to have your soil analysed.
If you are serious aboutr it, you may be able to ask someone at your local college horticulture department, or pay a small fee to have your soil analysed.
The structure of the soil has nothing at all to do with "rocks" or no rocks
Soil structure has to do with the particles and the distibution of certain minerals (montmorillonit) and organic matter adhereing to that mineral "backbone".
I live in an area where the soils are basically clay, which is ok if you add alot of compost to create the proper soil status over time.
This then assure a well drained soil, nothing else. If you just add sand to a clay soil - you get loam, but still no drainage.
Remember - compost is always the cats meow for any soil.
BTW - I had studied agrology in an earlier life, so some of the finer points of soil development are long forgotten, but the basics are still there - and we created a fine producing garden with >12" of topsoil on top of the native clay over 15 years.
Soil structure has to do with the particles and the distibution of certain minerals (montmorillonit) and organic matter adhereing to that mineral "backbone".
I live in an area where the soils are basically clay, which is ok if you add alot of compost to create the proper soil status over time.
This then assure a well drained soil, nothing else. If you just add sand to a clay soil - you get loam, but still no drainage.
Remember - compost is always the cats meow for any soil.
BTW - I had studied agrology in an earlier life, so some of the finer points of soil development are long forgotten, but the basics are still there - and we created a fine producing garden with >12" of topsoil on top of the native clay over 15 years.
I'm not the expert here, but here goes.
Sand is just soil devoid of nutrients. Good soil needs to have a crumb structure to retain both air and moisture simultaneously. Organic matter binds the sand by coating the particles with humus and creating crumbs. Good soil will form a ball when you squeeze a handful of it and will break apart when you drop it.
Sand is just soil devoid of nutrients. Good soil needs to have a crumb structure to retain both air and moisture simultaneously. Organic matter binds the sand by coating the particles with humus and creating crumbs. Good soil will form a ball when you squeeze a handful of it and will break apart when you drop it.
the light comes on.Yes, well the sand (of course) isn't necessarily soil as such. My old faithful gardening guide defines soil as within a range from clay (like) to sand. Actual sand is recommended for conditioning clay soil though.
One aspect of choosing manure is it's nutrient density. High density chicken manure is useful for improving good soil and is too strong for heavy use. To condition sandy soil, a sparse nutrient manure is desired. For example: elephant, horse, cow and sheep, respectively.
One aspect of choosing manure is it's nutrient density. High density chicken manure is useful for improving good soil and is too strong for heavy use. To condition sandy soil, a sparse nutrient manure is desired. For example: elephant, horse, cow and sheep, respectively.
The stones stop 'rain hammer' - micro supercompaction of the surface, simply due to the momentum of the raindrop itself. This lowers soil surface porosity, and so reduces water infiltration.
However, a lawn will be compacted to a degree anyway, and a fine tilth on the surface will help with gremination, TBH I doubt thered be much noticable difference once the grass is growing.
Increasing soil porosity is vital in fields where run-off is increasing - and thats where regular tilling and a % stone content help...
Just my 2 cents
Owen
However, a lawn will be compacted to a degree anyway, and a fine tilth on the surface will help with gremination, TBH I doubt thered be much noticable difference once the grass is growing.
Increasing soil porosity is vital in fields where run-off is increasing - and thats where regular tilling and a % stone content help...
Just my 2 cents
Owen
I don't think you're grass is going to grow. I don't blame you, if you can't smoke it, I wouldn't want to cut it either.
I agree with you about the gradation. You can commonly check it by mixing some in a jar of water, shaking it around and letting it settle. See the first link below, it's loam that you're after.
Peat Moss is an excellent means of organic material, it holds air and water, helps with drainage and keeps things from being too compact. It gives you that nice ball in your hand that breaks apart when you touch it. Too much will make it too acidic, but a little is great, grass likes things slightly acidic as does most vegetation.
It sounds like you'd do well to bring in a good load of top soil, mix it up with some peat moss, a cup of lime for long term calcium nutrients and PH control, and some manure that's not too hot as already mentioned, worm castings are probably the best, especially if you're starting with seeds. You actually want to be careful where you get your top soil from, sometimes it comes straight from the dump, and you probably don't want that! Let them keep it for growing your tomatoes with.
The rock issue... it's nice to not hit them with the mower.
Also, ask google.
http://home.howstuffworks.com/grass.htm
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/loam.html
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/healthylawn
http://www.nwfwmd.state.fl.us/pubs/pubinfo/xeriscape.pdf
Oh, if you're lazy like me and you just want a nice lawn in a week from now:
http://www.turboturf.com/Hydroseeding_Info.htm
Yes, Lime. That's a good point classd4sure. AFAIK, British soil is sweet. Just think of Dover (calcium carbonate I think 
)
Many vegetables are of British (perhaps European) origin AFAIK and here in Australia the soil is slightly acidic, we need to lime the soil before we grow them. So much so, (often two to four pH points) that native plants do poorly in it.
)Many vegetables are of British (perhaps European) origin AFAIK and here in Australia the soil is slightly acidic, we need to lime the soil before we grow them. So much so, (often two to four pH points) that native plants do poorly in it.
British soil varies across the full range, from alkaline chalk downs to acid peat bogs. Either test the soil or look what grows well for the neighbours - rhododendrons = acid, saxifrage = alkali. As a rule of thumb, if you have soft water, you have acid soil; if you have hard water, (there is always a scum around the bath!) the local soil is alkaline. Though these days UK water can come from a long way off.lndm said:AFAIK, British soil is sweet. Just think of Dover (calcium carbonate I think
On the stones/lawn question, over-raking the surface can create a very fine structure that forms a crust after rain. And grass needs air round the roots or you end up with a mossy lawn.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.