To ease a blame on myself for using forum for profit, I just donated $200 to the forum, on account of A30 board sale, just a small chunk of what I actually made, but I'm not thinking about selling ML37 yet
I noticed only 202 transaction for a forum account, which shows that Begathon is not that popular after all.
I noticed only 202 transaction for a forum account, which shows that Begathon is not that popular after all.
If we open a GB, we should always think of profit for one or many bottles of beer, or CD transport, or more. Why not?
Only problem is that we are confused whether diyAudio is turning into a play ground mainly for GB activities (of others) . . . The point is that the GB avalanches eat up new potential things and their real interests.
Regards
Only problem is that we are confused whether diyAudio is turning into a play ground mainly for GB activities (of others) . . . The point is that the GB avalanches eat up new potential things and their real interests.
Regards
SY said:
If the moderators police them in ANY way, then group buys are sponsored.
BTW, I never said that DIYAudio.com must be named on all group buy projects. I said *IF* a name must be used, let it be DIYAudio.com. If someone wants to use a trading name, let them pay for an advertiser's thread.
What about the rest of the points in my earlier post?
If someone is carrying or replenishing stock, how is it a group buy?
If someone is using a trading name (other than DIYAudio.com), how is it a group buy?
If someone sets up an eCommerce site, how is it a group buy?
All GBs are different, so setting formal rules is difficult, but I will try to answer your questions.
1)The GB might have continual interest, take for instance, the Bob Ellis Filter PCB group buy. Even after the first run was completed, there was still enough interest for a second.
2) Some people like to see a website with their name on it. I can handle that.
3) Sometimes setting up an E-commerce site may be the best way for them to keep everything in order, and reconcile payments with orders. This GB stuff gets very complicated very quickly, so why not let software take the strain
Now I'm not saying they are the only reasons why people would do the above things, but they are good enough reasons that we can't automatically use them as evidence of profit motive.
1)The GB might have continual interest, take for instance, the Bob Ellis Filter PCB group buy. Even after the first run was completed, there was still enough interest for a second.
2) Some people like to see a website with their name on it. I can handle that.
3) Sometimes setting up an E-commerce site may be the best way for them to keep everything in order, and reconcile payments with orders. This GB stuff gets very complicated very quickly, so why not let software take the strain
Now I'm not saying they are the only reasons why people would do the above things, but they are good enough reasons that we can't automatically use them as evidence of profit motive.
pinkmouse said:
I said nothing about proving profit motive. That is too nebulous a thing. There is no point in having virtually unenforcable rules aside from a desire to be able to act arbitrarily in enforcement. The rules I propose define what is a "group buy", not what is "profit motive." An equally important goal for my rules is to pin down what MODERATORS do.
Besides, a potential non-monetary profit IS being made in using a trading name to organise group buys. It defies logic to assert otherwise.
These rules would in no way prevent someone from making their own external site and using a trade name. They'd just be subject to the same rules here as other advertisers.
All of the benefits of an eCommerce site can be made by posting links to PayPal HERE, within the group buy threads. There is NO NEED for an external site.
Here's a fine example:
Is it?
I don't see any thread on Vendor's Bazaar, and even more incredible, not one single thread on Group Buys.
Probably they started the ecommerce site so that they had quantity discounts on PCBs for their own use?
Over and over again?
What I see is threads on almost all the tematic forums here, offering and discussing their kits.
I don't think this is serious.
I don't have anything against people making money out of their projects, and if using others' ideas, with the necessary permission.
But on the proper places, otherwise it can be seen as spam.
DcibeL said:
Is it?
I don't see any thread on Vendor's Bazaar, and even more incredible, not one single thread on Group Buys.
Probably they started the ecommerce site so that they had quantity discounts on PCBs for their own use?
Over and over again?
What I see is threads on almost all the tematic forums here, offering and discussing their kits.
I don't think this is serious.
I don't have anything against people making money out of their projects, and if using others' ideas, with the necessary permission.
But on the proper places, otherwise it can be seen as spam.
i think a group buy of valium is defintely in order here....
the mod's seem to be eminently sensible in their decisions and explanations. why add more rules? what/where is the actual damage resultant form their policies?
I for one appreciate any and all opportunites to buy otherwise hard to procure components without commiting to large quantities. if someone is making too much money, won't the market take care of that by not participating in a particular group buy?
seems much ado over nothing to me....
baald
the mod's seem to be eminently sensible in their decisions and explanations. why add more rules? what/where is the actual damage resultant form their policies?
I for one appreciate any and all opportunites to buy otherwise hard to procure components without commiting to large quantities. if someone is making too much money, won't the market take care of that by not participating in a particular group buy?
seems much ado over nothing to me....
baald
baald said:
You might wish to pay more attention to what the moderators do before suggesting medication:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=906669#post906669
anatech said:And that link proves exactly what?It's you looking for an answer that does not exist yet.
I think it's fair to say that no matter which way the situation is resolved, some party will have a legitimate grievance specifically due to past moderator action (or inaction) in similar circumstances. This demonstrates a need for rules, for which it is suggested that I need to take a valium. I think the link is appropriate to this discussion.
carlosfm said:Here's a fine example:
Is it?
I don't see any thread on Vendor's Bazaar, and even more incredible, not one single thread on Group Buys.
Probably they started the ecommerce site so that they had quantity discounts on PCBs for their own use?
Over and over again?
What I see is threads on almost all the tematic forums here, offering and discussing their kits.
Carlos,
I apreciate your concern, Here are a few important facts.
1) Brian and I sell only that which we have designed or those designs which are based on others work as well as ours and used with all the appropriate permission. You will note that if you look at the site and the PCBs themselves.
2) We are both currently opertaing at a slight loss. There is NO profit involved at this point.
3) Brian and I have both agreed that if and when we reach profitability we will open a VB thread and eventually get a banner.
4) All of the projects we are involved in have been developed with input from many people with many contributers involved, thus the long and very interesting threads.
Cheers!
Russ
Couldn't disagree more. My local grocery store has a little bulletin board near the door. People tack up little ads for selling/buying stuff. 99% personal. Every once in a while, one of the employees will pull down a commercial handbill or notice for an "escort" service or pyramid scams. Does that mean that the grocery store has sponsored the remaining ads?
You still haven't answered my question yet, unless I missed it.
SY said:
That was not really an appropriate analogy. It's in electronic print somewhere that moderators have made financial queries into past group buys - that's a lot different from pulling down a handbill. Pulling down a handbill is much more like deleting a post with swear words in it. No explanation is ever going to be required of you.
SY said:
If you're referring to your most recent question of me in the moderating thread, I realise I haven't answered it.
SY said:
My last two posts in the moderating thread contained several questions that were completely ignored! To say otherwise is revisionism.
Anyway, I give up until next time. No one cares (relatively speaking.) Further discussion is only going to see me lumped into the group of malcontents without a voice.
BTW, I don't have an "angle" - I saw something plainly absurd, I pointed it out just to see how it would be handled. I didn't for a second expect a satisfactory explanation because there isn't one.
I usually don't chime in on these things, but I want to add a couple points to Russ' post. Appologies in advance for the accompanying mini-rant. I agree with what most people are saying here.
1) My am currently carrying about $3700 on my credit card (at about 10% interest) for the parts for our kits. At an average of 5-15% profit per kit, I am not making any money. My credit card company is, I am quite sure, very happy with this arrangement.
2) I have inquired about a thread on the Vendors' Bazzaar, but have not heard back yet. I too am a little uncomfortable with the mixing of kit discussions with the basic circuit discussions in the main threads. Not overly concerned, but not at ease. If I was making money, I would definitely abandon discussions on the threads all together, unless asked specifically.
3) Russ forgot to mention that, in addition to permissions and discussions, we post the schematic (full) and board images. Russ often spends a lot of time creating alternate single sided images to make etching easier. When a project uses a PIC, we post source and compiled HEX.
I do this because I know many people (like me) do not have the time to etch their own boards, search out and buy their own parts, let alone build their own stuff. I have missed out on many great GB oppurtunities, and I know it blows. Our idea was, help people do do it any way they want. Use the design and make your own stuff from scratch, or buy a board and get your own parts, or get a kit.
My trade off is a) continuous debt b) no free time to build my own projects, even though I have kits and parts all over the place (I do not have a single project in a case, not one) c) occasional marital issues due to time contraints
The payoff is happiness from helping people, pride in doing something I am good at.
There have been several times (as recently as last week) when I have thought about ditching the whole thing to spend more time with my young son, and maybe making a case or two, or maybe actually finishing my own X-BoSoZ. Anyway, don't want to whine. I decided to do this.
For Carlos: Here is a link to the last Wiki GB I did: http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/index.php?page=Mauro+Penasa+GC+Parts+GB
If you've ever done it, you would know how much work it is, and how much of a PITA. Perhaps you feel diy should be relegated to only those who are semi-retired with lots of time on their hands, and with the know how to do everything themselves. I don't.
1) My am currently carrying about $3700 on my credit card (at about 10% interest) for the parts for our kits. At an average of 5-15% profit per kit, I am not making any money. My credit card company is, I am quite sure, very happy with this arrangement.
2) I have inquired about a thread on the Vendors' Bazzaar, but have not heard back yet. I too am a little uncomfortable with the mixing of kit discussions with the basic circuit discussions in the main threads. Not overly concerned, but not at ease. If I was making money, I would definitely abandon discussions on the threads all together, unless asked specifically.
3) Russ forgot to mention that, in addition to permissions and discussions, we post the schematic (full) and board images. Russ often spends a lot of time creating alternate single sided images to make etching easier. When a project uses a PIC, we post source and compiled HEX.
I do this because I know many people (like me) do not have the time to etch their own boards, search out and buy their own parts, let alone build their own stuff. I have missed out on many great GB oppurtunities, and I know it blows. Our idea was, help people do do it any way they want. Use the design and make your own stuff from scratch, or buy a board and get your own parts, or get a kit.
My trade off is a) continuous debt b) no free time to build my own projects, even though I have kits and parts all over the place (I do not have a single project in a case, not one) c) occasional marital issues due to time contraints
The payoff is happiness from helping people, pride in doing something I am good at.
There have been several times (as recently as last week) when I have thought about ditching the whole thing to spend more time with my young son, and maybe making a case or two, or maybe actually finishing my own X-BoSoZ. Anyway, don't want to whine. I decided to do this.
For Carlos: Here is a link to the last Wiki GB I did: http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/index.php?page=Mauro+Penasa+GC+Parts+GB
If you've ever done it, you would know how much work it is, and how much of a PITA. Perhaps you feel diy should be relegated to only those who are semi-retired with lots of time on their hands, and with the know how to do everything themselves. I don't.
BrianDonegan said:
Brian, I am 36 years old.
Don't make me think how many years I have in front of me before thinking about retirement.
I too have a kid, a wife, a day (and sometimes night) job which consumes much of my time and energy.
BUT I manage to make the things I like, even if some can take long or be postponed due to lack of time.
What is important is: I've never got anything for granted, I usually do things my own way, and I'm not in a hurry for anything.
I also don't expect others to do my work or present me everything already done.
All the work pays off for the pleasure of enjoying the music.
Who wants everything done buys commercial gear, you just plug it and turn it on. No electronics knowledge is needed either.
I hope this message passes, because my posts are moderated.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.