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Resistor Sound Quality?
Resistor Sound Quality?
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Old 19th September 2005, 08:52 AM   #1
henkel is offline henkel  Malaysia
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Default Resistor Sound Quality?

Hi! Noobie here with question about resistors.

I have read with much interest in the Blackgate cap threads and the sound diferences they made. I won't go much further into that!

Those BG threads now got me wodering if there are any BG equavelant for resistors? I mean audiophile grade resistors? if there's such a thing.

Or are all 1% metal foils resistors just the same(in terms of sound to value)?

If there are so called audiograde resistors available, what are your prefered brands?

Thanks for enlightment.
 
Old 19th September 2005, 12:37 PM   #2
float is offline float  England
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Default Re: Resistor Sound Quality?

Quote:
Originally posted by henkel

If there are so called audiograde resistors available...

Plenty info here...
Search for vishay, caddock, holco, dale, riken, roederstein etc

HTH
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Old 19th September 2005, 03:37 PM   #3
henkel is offline henkel  Malaysia
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Thanks float!

I did a serch with "resistor" but came up with many topics and none tittled as such.

Now that I know the search word......
 
Old 21st September 2005, 02:04 PM   #4
klitgt is offline klitgt  Denmark
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Carbon composite resistors are known by audio-, guitar- and vintage people for their very clean and natural sound.

Composite resistors differ from film resistors in that they consist of a little tube with a composite carbon resistor material inside. This makes the resistance, so you only have a few mm (tenth of an inch) of material in the signal.

A film resistor is made by carving a channel into a carbon (or metal) film on a glass or ceramic tube, resulting sometimes in meters (feet) of material in the signal! Also a film resistor always has inductance , composite resistors don't.

Allen-Bradley is the brand to look for. They are far less expensive than the brands mentioned above by member float.
 
Old 21st September 2005, 02:20 PM   #5
Upupa Epops is offline Upupa Epops  Czech Republic
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Summary lenght of resistors in signal path....my God... I'm howling like wind...
 
Old 21st September 2005, 02:23 PM   #6
henkel is offline henkel  Malaysia
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Thanks klitgt,

I went to purchase some TKD resistors, and tried them out in the output stage of the NAD PP-2 phono stage. The results are good.

I am now wondering if I do a little bit better if I mod the input resistors as well.

I did see the A-B resistor in store. Worth a look.

The store was also showing me some Kiwame resistors, saying that they sounded "sweater at the top end" conpared to the TKDs.

Anymore recomendations?
 
Old 21st October 2005, 02:19 AM   #7
BoomBoomBoy is offline BoomBoomBoy  United States
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My personal favorite:

www.caddock.com
 
Old 22nd October 2005, 12:49 AM   #8
I_Forgot is offline I_Forgot  United States
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You should also be aware that carbon composite resistors are unstable and drift upward in resistance value over time. They should not be used where 1) they are setting critical bias levels and/or 2) where you want the equipment to operate consistently for a long time (years).

I think the "classic" amp guys prefer them mainly because that's what was used in the original circuits they are repairing or duplicating and they want to duplicate the "sound" of the original.

I_F
 
Old 22nd October 2005, 05:47 PM   #9
youyoung21147 is offline youyoung21147  France
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I'm in front of a little dilemma : I can get either some metal film Tyco LR resistors or some Vishay metal film.

I assume that Vishay are better in the signal path aren't they ?
 
Old 25th October 2005, 09:54 AM   #10
ROCKMANDRAKE is offline ROCKMANDRAKE  France
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Default KIWAME FOR EVER

Dear Sir,

please have a look at my personal realization and you will understand !!!

Carbon comp :
1) kiwame ( lush sounding - the best ( to my opinion ! )
2) riken ( taut and three dimensional but very expensive )
3) kamaya ( very good but 5 to 10% tolerance )
4) Ohmite little devil ( see kamaya )
5) morganite ( pleasant sound - tend to drift !! )

Metal :

1) roederstein ( tight 'n' fast - a little thin )
2) Holco ( very fast - "metallic treble )

To my opinion KIWAME resistors are the overall winners.


Regards

ROCK
 
Old 25th October 2005, 10:16 AM   #11
Upupa Epops is offline Upupa Epops  Czech Republic
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" Taste " of resistors .... remember De Gaule : "... nation with two hundred and fifty sorts of cheese... "
 
Old 25th October 2005, 10:57 AM   #12
dhaen is offline dhaen  Europe
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Default The "Cheddar" of resistors....

.
I have never "heard" any difference in sound between resistor types, except carbon composition when used at high voltage, where they sometimes exhibit a slight VDR effect.
That doesn't mean I don't advocate high quality resistors. They will be more accurate, more stable over time, and less liable to failure (which could affect audio quality). But which ones to choose is really down to budget, cosmetics and supply.
Time is much better spent considering sound engineering principles of electronic design and thermal management.
 
Old 25th October 2005, 11:10 AM   #13
Upupa Epops is offline Upupa Epops  Czech Republic
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Little instability of carbon ones can cause " coloration " of sound, which in some cases can enjoy ... So go on, guys, amp without distortion is boredom....
 
Old 25th October 2005, 11:16 AM   #14
Panelhead is offline Panelhead
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Default Resistors

Quote:
Originally posted by klitgt
Carbon composite resistors are known by audio-, guitar- and vintage people for their very clean and natural sound.

Composite resistors differ from film resistors in that they consist of a little tube with a composite carbon resistor material inside. This makes the resistance, so you only have a few mm (tenth of an inch) of material in the signal.

A film resistor is made by carving a channel into a carbon (or metal) film on a glass or ceramic tube, resulting sometimes in meters (feet) of material in the signal! Also a film resistor always has inductance , composite resistors don't.

Allen-Bradley is the brand to look for. They are far less expensive than the brands mentioned above by member float.

I really like the AB carbon comps also. The leads on the 1/2 watt do not fit holes drilled for modern metal films. This is about the downside I have seen.
The drift up in value should not be an issue. Always measure and match all resistors. A twenty year old resistor has drifted about all it is going to.
One modern metal film that is real nice is the brown bodied Dale CMF55. These are extremely neutral and totally non-magnetic.
I shop for resistors with a magnet in my pocket. If the resistor sticks to the magnet it stays in the bin. Several of the resistors listed as favorites have either steel end caps on the body, or worse yet, steel leads.

George
 
Old 25th October 2005, 11:22 AM   #15
astouffer is offline astouffer  United States
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Whats the deal with magnetic leads or end caps? Will 1nH of inductance really affect your amp with a bandwidth of maybe 50khz? I can't even get an inductance reading with a metal film resistor on a HP 4192A LCZ meter. Thats up to 13Mhz. Will it make a difference at UHF, probably. At audio frequencies, no.
 
Old 25th October 2005, 11:23 AM   #16
Upupa Epops is offline Upupa Epops  Czech Republic
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George, what about to try virgule ? Or sideric pendulum ?
 
Old 25th October 2005, 12:16 PM   #17
Christer is offline Christer  Sweden
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John,

it is intersting that you mention VDR effects, since that is seldom discussed. All, or almost all, types of resistor have a voltage dependent resistance, some types more than others. I don't think I have ever seen any figures, but presumably the voltage dependency is quite small. There is also a potential secondary VDR effect from heating, since the resistance is also temperature dependent. Both of these effects are likely negligible for most resistors in an amplifier, they will both be swamped by other non-linearities and corrected by feedback. However, there is one resistor that both sees large voltage swings and cannot be corrected by feedback, namely the feedback resistor. So if there is any resistor in amplifier that may cause an audible effect at all, I would suggest this one to be the primary candidate for experiments. If it is not possible to hear a difference between different types of feedback resistors, then I strongly doubt it is possible to hear a difference for any other resistor.
 
Old 25th October 2005, 12:23 PM   #18
SY is offline SY  United States
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Resistor Sound Quality?
Besides voltage coefficient of resistance, the other major issue is noise. Carbon comps are the worst in that regard. I use them as grid-stoppers for high-level circuits where the noise and drift are not an issue.

TCR isn't an issue for signal because of thermal inertia. It is an issue for filters and places where matching is important (e.g., plate loads). Again, the carbon comps come off worst.

So of course, carbon comps will become fashionable.
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Old 25th October 2005, 12:29 PM   #19
sagarverma is offline sagarverma  India
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carbon res,in high temp environment like car ,have a temperature noise associated with them but metal films apart from being highly accurate dont have such probs.
in general cases,there is not much difference.
i prefer mf but until i have no other choice
 
Old 25th October 2005, 12:30 PM   #20
Upupa Epops is offline Upupa Epops  Czech Republic
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To SY : Is this pic from Bloodwin Pig ?
 
Old 25th October 2005, 12:35 PM   #21
Christer is offline Christer  Sweden
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Yes, I realize there is thermal inertia, so we wouldn't get any distorsion in the normal sense, like THD. However, what if there is a fortissimo passage so the resistor will dissipate a high power for a while. It will warm up slowly and if it is the feedback resistor, that means the gain of the amp will change slowly. Whether such an effect would be audible is another issue.
 
Old 25th October 2005, 12:56 PM   #22
Upupa Epops is offline Upupa Epops  Czech Republic
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To Christer : Thermal inertia is faster, than you mean... By some papers caused rise of distortion on low frequency during only each periode ....
 
Old 25th October 2005, 12:58 PM   #23
Christer is offline Christer  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally posted by Upupa Epops
To Christer : Thermal inertia is faster, than you mean... By some papers caused rise of distortion on low frequency during only each periode ....
OK, well I had no idea how quick or slow it is, but since SY seemed to say it is very slow, I assumed it is.

Do you have any opinion on my suggestion that the feedback resistor would be the most sensitive to these effects in normal amps?
 
Old 25th October 2005, 01:03 PM   #24
Upupa Epops is offline Upupa Epops  Czech Republic
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Yes, I agree...I'm using at this position in every time " overdimensioned " resistors...
 
Old 25th October 2005, 01:08 PM   #25
Christer is offline Christer  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally posted by Upupa Epops
Yes, I agree...I'm using at this position in every time " overdimensioned " resistors...
Interesting. That was what I had in mind, but so far it has only been a theoretical speculation from my side that it might be a good idea to overdimension it. Seems I wasn't too wrong there then.
 

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