Do you guys not have a Monster Raving Looney Party? The UK party has had my vote for the past three elections over here.
Our equivalent to the MRLP was the rhino party - emphasis on was.
They disbanded somewhere in the nineties after the liberals got in. The reason - if i remeber corectly: they couldn't compete with the liberals regarding ridicoulesness.
No Sy, our elections are not very polite, but the lack quite a bit of the bitterness and almost hatred between the parties that i witnessed through the last elections in the USA. The type of mud slinging is usually also absent, we rather wait till a candidate stumbles - and then we pounce.
I think it has to do with our embracing the good old british parliamentary type of democracy, were in the end the government can be grilled in the house of commons for every decision, which means they have to account publicly. In the states it looks rather like a four year kingship to me - if you have also the senate and the house behind you. NOt to say that some politicians here - chretien the last comes to mind - who rather behave in a kingly aloof fashion.
But I think - as in this last election - the Green Party gets my vote again.
They disbanded somewhere in the nineties after the liberals got in. The reason - if i remeber corectly: they couldn't compete with the liberals regarding ridicoulesness.
No Sy, our elections are not very polite, but the lack quite a bit of the bitterness and almost hatred between the parties that i witnessed through the last elections in the USA. The type of mud slinging is usually also absent, we rather wait till a candidate stumbles - and then we pounce.
I think it has to do with our embracing the good old british parliamentary type of democracy, were in the end the government can be grilled in the house of commons for every decision, which means they have to account publicly. In the states it looks rather like a four year kingship to me - if you have also the senate and the house behind you. NOt to say that some politicians here - chretien the last comes to mind - who rather behave in a kingly aloof fashion.
But I think - as in this last election - the Green Party gets my vote again.
A comment on the Bloc Quebecois: The only thing that happened after their first election to the Quebec government, was the loss of almost every bit of 'broadband' (meaning global or -all Canadian) Economic capitalist systems based in the Montreal area.
Montreal nearly died in the process..and it has never recovered.
Montreal at this present time, should -easily- exceed the economic might of Toronto, and it's surrounding industrial suburbs..but it does not. All because about 75% of all businesses based in the Montreal area....moved out as the the 'Bloc' was elected.
THe bloc KILLED Quebec. They sure didn't save it. Quebec's economic might should be ruling Canada, right now, but it is not. All because the 'Bloc' was elected.
The net result, was that the 'Bloc' killed Montreal and took the economic heart right out of Quebec. So much for protecting Quebec's interests. As usual, political parties have agendas that have very little or nothing to do with anything like the platforms they have been elected into office on.
Since then, the Bloc's -entire- agenda has been to try and remove Quebec from Canada, and sell off all it's natural resources to American corporate.interests, while siphoning off funds for their own political/corporate interests. All that resource sold....For practically nothing. Qubecers wouldn't see a single cent of the money.
WAKE UP, QUEBEKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For example, the main topic of discussion for Quebec separating from Canada, was the aboriginal folks of Quebec (native Canadians), to have all their PERSONAL control of their lands and resources ahnded over to the new Quebec' federal' government. This was THE issue of seperation. Nothing else was on the table. All kinds of other things were spoken of like, pride, the English pig-dogs, THe catholic church, etc, but the Real agenda was the getting control of aboriginal resources, which are calculated to be near a trillion$$$. And selling it ALL to American corporate interests.
At that point, maybe an American reading this can see why some folks out there (in the world) aren't that fond of American corporations, and (sadly) identify Americans (people) with the American corporations (brutal money machines) which run around wreaking havoc in the world. Americans themselves are generally.....unaware of these actions and relatively 'hidden' activities.
WAKE UP, QUEBEKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just so you don't think I'm being one sided, these situations are RAMPANT! I have a ---direct--- inside view from one of the native Canadian political entities, and it isn't good. They are screwing over their own people for personal views and personal financial gain. And, to add, any of their agendas to get things 'right' for their own people, are totally screwed up, by -any- means of analysis.
The conservatives/republicans are the WORST for falseness in those terms. Remember, Canadians, what happens when conservatives (incredibly similar to Republicans) are elected into office. REMEMBER...
Incredible shortsightedness, self-centered behavior, and the 'rule of the land', in economic terms are: rape, pillage,and destroy, in the name of the Almighty dollar, as tied to personal interests of those who are in office.
People have short memories,and forget the fact that as corporations get bigger and bigger..that they have NO reason whatsoever, to owe any sort of allegiance to any given 'economic power' in terms of that 'economic power' being the political-civil branches and actions of a given country. No reason whatsoever.
And, to add to that fact, that a given corporation is economically oriented, with extreme and severe ideas about raping, pillaging, and destroying, in very brutal and personal ways.
Add to that fact, that the economic and political systems of so-called 'democracies' have --allowed-- corporations (and religion) far, far, far to much leeway and interference in political systems.
When a corporation ceases (ether monetary or materials-production based, but the monetary based ones are the WORST, by far) to have avenues of expansion, they automatically turn to places where the workload and financial input are the least, and where the returns are the greatest. The last place where they can expand into, with the greatest of ease, for great financial gains.
This 'point of expansion' for these corporations are the democratic political systems of the western world.
The overall psychological 'bent' (direction, and where they come from) of the whole money oriented crowd of international and country based economic entities, like banks, money lenders, corporate control groups (The groups like the one that the Bush family/crew is deep, deep, deep into) that buy and sell businesses, and the entire wall street phenomenon..all tend to have 'similar' views as 'conservatives' or 'republicans'.
Naturally, these groups gravitate toward these conservative groups, as their points of view and 'modus operandi' (mode of operation) fit the conservative/republican parties like hand in glove.
What you end up with, is a situation where corporations have their hands and psychotically short-sighted money oriented minds deep, deep deep into the political systems of the west. More in the conservative/Republican parties and the governmental control systems.
Not that it does not exist in the liberal/democratic entities, either..but it is far more prevalent in the conservative/ republican systems.
Since the first world war, and earlier, it has been getting worse, and worse... and worse, in the west....and no-one seems to want to try and do anything about it.
It would likely require a complete re-vamping of laws and control systems, but the corporations are getting too powerful to deal with now. So bad, that they are so deep into politics that the two are getting inseparable.
An example:
~
Like this little line, that is not well known.
When Eisenhower left the Presidential office, he made his last speech at some university or the like. (I'm sure you can find it, look it up) In that speech, he emphatically warned about 'beware the industrial-military control complex' as it could usurp the power of the Presidential office, and the political system of the United states. 'Beware' ....he said.
Only problem is, in the original speech he stated, beware the CORPORATE-industrial-military control complex.
Somehow, the word 'corporate' was removed from the records of the speech! The only existing known record that is correct, is the records of the speech, as recored at the university itself. All other records have been altered, or were originally recorded with the word 'corporate' removed.
Odd isn't it?
Things like that happen far, far, far too often in western society, and one of the worst, as of recent, are the current political situations in the United states, in all ways.
Everything I have said here, is perfectly and obviously true, by anyone who seeks simple truths, and is able to look at things clearly.
However, people will likely rail against it, if it interferes with their personal viewpoints on what governments and freedom are supposed to mean.
Democracy, means exactly that. Rule by the people, for the people, with NO corporations and NO Religion involved or tolerated in -----ANY WAY AT ALL.
And that is about the furthest thing from the truth in western society/culture/politics/economy at this time, and America seems to be leading the way in falling down a very dark, and deep hole.
Montreal nearly died in the process..and it has never recovered.
Montreal at this present time, should -easily- exceed the economic might of Toronto, and it's surrounding industrial suburbs..but it does not. All because about 75% of all businesses based in the Montreal area....moved out as the the 'Bloc' was elected.
THe bloc KILLED Quebec. They sure didn't save it. Quebec's economic might should be ruling Canada, right now, but it is not. All because the 'Bloc' was elected.
The net result, was that the 'Bloc' killed Montreal and took the economic heart right out of Quebec. So much for protecting Quebec's interests. As usual, political parties have agendas that have very little or nothing to do with anything like the platforms they have been elected into office on.
Since then, the Bloc's -entire- agenda has been to try and remove Quebec from Canada, and sell off all it's natural resources to American corporate.interests, while siphoning off funds for their own political/corporate interests. All that resource sold....For practically nothing. Qubecers wouldn't see a single cent of the money.
WAKE UP, QUEBEKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For example, the main topic of discussion for Quebec separating from Canada, was the aboriginal folks of Quebec (native Canadians), to have all their PERSONAL control of their lands and resources ahnded over to the new Quebec' federal' government. This was THE issue of seperation. Nothing else was on the table. All kinds of other things were spoken of like, pride, the English pig-dogs, THe catholic church, etc, but the Real agenda was the getting control of aboriginal resources, which are calculated to be near a trillion$$$. And selling it ALL to American corporate interests.
At that point, maybe an American reading this can see why some folks out there (in the world) aren't that fond of American corporations, and (sadly) identify Americans (people) with the American corporations (brutal money machines) which run around wreaking havoc in the world. Americans themselves are generally.....unaware of these actions and relatively 'hidden' activities.
WAKE UP, QUEBEKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just so you don't think I'm being one sided, these situations are RAMPANT! I have a ---direct--- inside view from one of the native Canadian political entities, and it isn't good. They are screwing over their own people for personal views and personal financial gain. And, to add, any of their agendas to get things 'right' for their own people, are totally screwed up, by -any- means of analysis.
The conservatives/republicans are the WORST for falseness in those terms. Remember, Canadians, what happens when conservatives (incredibly similar to Republicans) are elected into office. REMEMBER...
Incredible shortsightedness, self-centered behavior, and the 'rule of the land', in economic terms are: rape, pillage,and destroy, in the name of the Almighty dollar, as tied to personal interests of those who are in office.
People have short memories,and forget the fact that as corporations get bigger and bigger..that they have NO reason whatsoever, to owe any sort of allegiance to any given 'economic power' in terms of that 'economic power' being the political-civil branches and actions of a given country. No reason whatsoever.
And, to add to that fact, that a given corporation is economically oriented, with extreme and severe ideas about raping, pillaging, and destroying, in very brutal and personal ways.
Add to that fact, that the economic and political systems of so-called 'democracies' have --allowed-- corporations (and religion) far, far, far to much leeway and interference in political systems.
When a corporation ceases (ether monetary or materials-production based, but the monetary based ones are the WORST, by far) to have avenues of expansion, they automatically turn to places where the workload and financial input are the least, and where the returns are the greatest. The last place where they can expand into, with the greatest of ease, for great financial gains.
This 'point of expansion' for these corporations are the democratic political systems of the western world.
The overall psychological 'bent' (direction, and where they come from) of the whole money oriented crowd of international and country based economic entities, like banks, money lenders, corporate control groups (The groups like the one that the Bush family/crew is deep, deep, deep into) that buy and sell businesses, and the entire wall street phenomenon..all tend to have 'similar' views as 'conservatives' or 'republicans'.
Naturally, these groups gravitate toward these conservative groups, as their points of view and 'modus operandi' (mode of operation) fit the conservative/republican parties like hand in glove.
What you end up with, is a situation where corporations have their hands and psychotically short-sighted money oriented minds deep, deep deep into the political systems of the west. More in the conservative/Republican parties and the governmental control systems.
Not that it does not exist in the liberal/democratic entities, either..but it is far more prevalent in the conservative/ republican systems.
Since the first world war, and earlier, it has been getting worse, and worse... and worse, in the west....and no-one seems to want to try and do anything about it.
It would likely require a complete re-vamping of laws and control systems, but the corporations are getting too powerful to deal with now. So bad, that they are so deep into politics that the two are getting inseparable.
An example:
~
Like this little line, that is not well known.
When Eisenhower left the Presidential office, he made his last speech at some university or the like. (I'm sure you can find it, look it up) In that speech, he emphatically warned about 'beware the industrial-military control complex' as it could usurp the power of the Presidential office, and the political system of the United states. 'Beware' ....he said.
Only problem is, in the original speech he stated, beware the CORPORATE-industrial-military control complex.
Somehow, the word 'corporate' was removed from the records of the speech! The only existing known record that is correct, is the records of the speech, as recored at the university itself. All other records have been altered, or were originally recorded with the word 'corporate' removed.
Odd isn't it?
Things like that happen far, far, far too often in western society, and one of the worst, as of recent, are the current political situations in the United states, in all ways.
Everything I have said here, is perfectly and obviously true, by anyone who seeks simple truths, and is able to look at things clearly.
However, people will likely rail against it, if it interferes with their personal viewpoints on what governments and freedom are supposed to mean.
Democracy, means exactly that. Rule by the people, for the people, with NO corporations and NO Religion involved or tolerated in -----ANY WAY AT ALL.
And that is about the furthest thing from the truth in western society/culture/politics/economy at this time, and America seems to be leading the way in falling down a very dark, and deep hole.
hmmm - kbk,
I have a hard time finding myself disagreeing with you. Unusual considering the last discussions we had...
The corporate agenda is to form the world according to their views and to their benefit, and damn rule of the people or for the people.
According to our view, they have through multinational organization largely succeded - and made a mockery of democracy, which in most cases just accedes to this agenda - see the social security network, medicare etc. here and in the states, dismantling of environmental protection laws etc.
Come peak oil - everybody will get their share of problems, but it again may lead to further clearly fascistic governments - which is the hand in glove cooperation of industry and politics, and nothing else, in order to "solve" self created problems.. The persecution of jews,,commies, gypsies etc was just a side show, with quite some economical gain in the case of the jews - see the swiss banks for that.
Yes, the future looks bright - order your shades in time.
I have a hard time finding myself disagreeing with you. Unusual considering the last discussions we had...
The corporate agenda is to form the world according to their views and to their benefit, and damn rule of the people or for the people.
According to our view, they have through multinational organization largely succeded - and made a mockery of democracy, which in most cases just accedes to this agenda - see the social security network, medicare etc. here and in the states, dismantling of environmental protection laws etc.
Come peak oil - everybody will get their share of problems, but it again may lead to further clearly fascistic governments - which is the hand in glove cooperation of industry and politics, and nothing else, in order to "solve" self created problems.. The persecution of jews,,commies, gypsies etc was just a side show, with quite some economical gain in the case of the jews - see the swiss banks for that.
Yes, the future looks bright - order your shades in time.
Yes. it is horrible that a single person should die. Yes. I say that in case anyone thinks I'm being one-sied about this coming point:
Everyone remembers the situation regarding jewish people in Europe, during the second world war. (at least us in western society, at the least. Other huge atrocities have happened at times in the East as well)
Just after the second world war...over a period, that I think was just two years..the Russians, under Stalin, killed 20 million Ukranians. Slowly. Very slowly. They literally took all their food, and starved them to death.Slowly. And killed anyone or anything that got in their way.
Yes 20,000,000 people.
In two years.
Yet... very few people are aware of that.
A good freind of mine, his entire family line (his family name, in it's entire existence) was wiped out, down to just one single person. Hundreds gone. Just the one escaped. Imagine all "Jones' being killed, everywhere, for example. Exactly Like that. A few of his family members fought the Russians. They paid the price. The Russians killed them ALL.
Yet..nobody here, in the west, remembers.. or even knows this.
So, in essence, it isn't the political parties that need to be looked at, in terms of deciding who to vote for.....it is getting so involved in politics that the whole system gets a chance to be revamped. For ANY of this to take place, you have to get deeply involved in politics, and -stay involved- in politics, and never, I mean NEVER relax your vigilance until the whole basket if rotten eggs is dead- dead-dead.
And that will take nearly a lifetime of unrelaxed vigilance.
So start now. or die like this, with curses on the early graves of your children.
For if you are weak on this, or walk away and do nothing....that is -exactly- what you are doing.
For the corporations will NEVER walk away. Unless you MAKE them. With the force of WILL and PRESENCE.
The American Constitution warns of never relaxing your vigilance.
Apparently, Americans (who are not unique on this in western societies) have forgotten their essential document, and their government is using it to wipe their collective corporate *****.
The,...there's Irsael. Ohh..Israel. Now that's a gigantic kettle of fish of mounumental porportions. Soo hot...that if I even -begin- to speak word of the truth of what goes on there... this thread would be shut down. All I can politely say, is a quote: ..." and now.. you have become....that which you hate the most"....
are these situations unique? NO. Wht does this have to do with Candian politics? Everything!
For this is the real sort of thig you face. Newspapers, stories, new on TV, etc, be dammed! None of that is relavant or has anything to do with the -real- adgendas. NONE OF IT! not one bloody word!!
You, as a man on the street, never get the government you elect or think you are electing.
All you do is elect a system of corporate intergration that has adgendas that are hidden in manyways. Some of it is real, and works for you, some of it is hidden.
It all comes down to the microcsm of human control issues, and the exact mental states of the people involved.
Ie, the base psychologial concerns of the people involved. And not much esle. And generally, anyone who WANTS to be a Politician, is generally the person you -least- want to be there, as far as human concepts of humanity, realsitic viewpoints on religion, reality of economcis, and involvement with corporations goes.
Everyone remembers the situation regarding jewish people in Europe, during the second world war. (at least us in western society, at the least. Other huge atrocities have happened at times in the East as well)
Just after the second world war...over a period, that I think was just two years..the Russians, under Stalin, killed 20 million Ukranians. Slowly. Very slowly. They literally took all their food, and starved them to death.Slowly. And killed anyone or anything that got in their way.
Yes 20,000,000 people.
In two years.
Yet... very few people are aware of that.
A good freind of mine, his entire family line (his family name, in it's entire existence) was wiped out, down to just one single person. Hundreds gone. Just the one escaped. Imagine all "Jones' being killed, everywhere, for example. Exactly Like that. A few of his family members fought the Russians. They paid the price. The Russians killed them ALL.
Yet..nobody here, in the west, remembers.. or even knows this.
So, in essence, it isn't the political parties that need to be looked at, in terms of deciding who to vote for.....it is getting so involved in politics that the whole system gets a chance to be revamped. For ANY of this to take place, you have to get deeply involved in politics, and -stay involved- in politics, and never, I mean NEVER relax your vigilance until the whole basket if rotten eggs is dead- dead-dead.
And that will take nearly a lifetime of unrelaxed vigilance.
So start now. or die like this, with curses on the early graves of your children.
For if you are weak on this, or walk away and do nothing....that is -exactly- what you are doing.
For the corporations will NEVER walk away. Unless you MAKE them. With the force of WILL and PRESENCE.
The American Constitution warns of never relaxing your vigilance.
Apparently, Americans (who are not unique on this in western societies) have forgotten their essential document, and their government is using it to wipe their collective corporate *****.
The,...there's Irsael. Ohh..Israel. Now that's a gigantic kettle of fish of mounumental porportions. Soo hot...that if I even -begin- to speak word of the truth of what goes on there... this thread would be shut down. All I can politely say, is a quote: ..." and now.. you have become....that which you hate the most"....
are these situations unique? NO. Wht does this have to do with Candian politics? Everything!
For this is the real sort of thig you face. Newspapers, stories, new on TV, etc, be dammed! None of that is relavant or has anything to do with the -real- adgendas. NONE OF IT! not one bloody word!!
You, as a man on the street, never get the government you elect or think you are electing.
All you do is elect a system of corporate intergration that has adgendas that are hidden in manyways. Some of it is real, and works for you, some of it is hidden.
It all comes down to the microcsm of human control issues, and the exact mental states of the people involved.
Ie, the base psychologial concerns of the people involved. And not much esle. And generally, anyone who WANTS to be a Politician, is generally the person you -least- want to be there, as far as human concepts of humanity, realsitic viewpoints on religion, reality of economcis, and involvement with corporations goes.
I think you got a "zero" wrong. Estimated to have died are somewhere upward of a million to 2 million. The twenty million refer to the total of russians and members of other ethnic groups stalin had killed between the purges and the elimination of ukranians.
One has to be careful with "overblown" numbers. Remember the so called " mass graves" of "hundred thousands" suppsedly killed by serbs in kossovo? All crap. They killed several thousands - but so did the as "victims" portrayed crooks of the KLA - at least one of theirs is now before te courts.
Remember the "massgraves" of saddam hussain - yes, the corpses of several thousand have been found, but this is along way from several hundred thousands.
Not that it should matter if innocents are killed by the thousands or millions - it is just the credibility of those that use those numbers that is at stake and which might harm their more or less "honourable" cause.
Money went out of Montreal when pq was first elected not went bloc québécois was. Even virtuel money went out off quebec: brinks convoy went to Toronto...to scare people from Quebec.
Bloc québécois want to sell quebec ressource to american interest? Wow, where did you found that one...really funny!!!
Bloc Québécois is in Ottawa first to defend the quebec minority among Canada against Ottawa. Second to defend alla canadian against to federal governement if that defend Québec interest.They are doing a good job and most québécois keep voting for them.
Bc was there for: unemployment insurance, "déséquilibre fiscal"( don't know how to say it in english)refert to gomery commission, etc...
p.s when you use the term arborigen, what are you refering to?
Bloc québécois want to sell quebec ressource to american interest? Wow, where did you found that one...really funny!!!
Bloc Québécois is in Ottawa first to defend the quebec minority among Canada against Ottawa. Second to defend alla canadian against to federal governement if that defend Québec interest.They are doing a good job and most québécois keep voting for them.
Bc was there for: unemployment insurance, "déséquilibre fiscal"( don't know how to say it in english)refert to gomery commission, etc...
p.s when you use the term arborigen, what are you refering to?
I would venture he meant what you might call the "non white" original possessors of all the lands in "la belle provence".
To defend WHAT? Through living in canada for twenty five years - as a citizen for most of that time - i have followed the "aspirations of the people of quebec for all that time.
By now i am ready to agree to let them go their own bloody way without even a twitch if that sorrow theme of separation comes up again.
IMHO they have overstayed their welcome within the federation of canada should they ever bring that up again in a referendum - good by and god speed.
Take a close lookat the economics and the politics of the 'seven rivers project'. Who financed it, who benefits, what it's ideas for continuing or expanding it are, etc. Not that I disagree with you concerning the effectiveness of the Bloc - for Quebec. I'm listening!
As for the numbers of Ukranians, it comes from this friend, who is a child of the person who survived, and he (the child of the survivor) is also a historian. Not that I have any reason to doubt your number of two million, but I have even less reason to doubt his credibility in reporting the number of 20M. This person, has nver, ever steered me wrong in the slightest, in any way.
So, I wonder the reason for this difference in figures.At this point, I am far more likely to feel (feel, is the word, as at this point, none of us are likely to be privy to anything like a 'hard fact') that your number of 2M is the wrong number.
As for the numbers of Ukranians, it comes from this friend, who is a child of the person who survived, and he (the child of the survivor) is also a historian. Not that I have any reason to doubt your number of two million, but I have even less reason to doubt his credibility in reporting the number of 20M. This person, has nver, ever steered me wrong in the slightest, in any way.
So, I wonder the reason for this difference in figures.At this point, I am far more likely to feel (feel, is the word, as at this point, none of us are likely to be privy to anything like a 'hard fact') that your number of 2M is the wrong number.
http://www.newsweekly.com.au/articles/2003jun28_cover.html
Guess we were both wrong. But - i do not want to play the numbers game, just to be careful with those numbers. It doesn't matter to the victims after all.
referring to ukranian losses.
Guess we were both wrong. But - i do not want to play the numbers game, just to be careful with those numbers. It doesn't matter to the victims after all.
referring to ukranian losses.
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