I'd eliminate autoantonyms. Geez, words like "sanction" have to be terribly confusing to non-native English speakers. If an activity is sanctioned, it's approved. If it's not approved, you may be sanctioned!
I had to explain to my three year old tonight why "cutting in two" was the same as "cutting in half".
I had to explain to my three year old tonight why "cutting in two" was the same as "cutting in half".
Cal,
I agree that English spelling is rediculous, but your simplification only works for North American speakers. To properly transcribe the way I speak English would need a different spelling for 3 out of the 5 words. This is probably why no rationalisation has ever got off the ground.
Perhaps what we need are Ideograms such as the Chinese use, that are not necessarily related to any particular sounds.
We've had discussions on this board before about the minefield that English presents to non-native speakers. One has to admire their tenacity.
SY,
Of course Children with their developing minds are best at learning English. What I've noticed that it's quite common for them to initially learn irregular grammar "parrot fashion", only to stumble later as the English gramatical parameters are getting "set" in their minds. They then have to re-learn the irregulars, of which we have many.
I agree that English spelling is rediculous, but your simplification only works for North American speakers. To properly transcribe the way I speak English would need a different spelling for 3 out of the 5 words. This is probably why no rationalisation has ever got off the ground.
Perhaps what we need are Ideograms such as the Chinese use, that are not necessarily related to any particular sounds.
We've had discussions on this board before about the minefield that English presents to non-native speakers. One has to admire their tenacity.
SY,
Of course Children with their developing minds are best at learning English. What I've noticed that it's quite common for them to initially learn irregular grammar "parrot fashion", only to stumble later as the English gramatical parameters are getting "set" in their minds. They then have to re-learn the irregulars, of which we have many.
If i was in charge i will cut too.
And i will create another words.... because you have one word and many translations...have to read all sentence to see what's the meaning.... also i will put portuguese "saudade" in the place of "miss you" and will liberate the F---, because people like to say and like to do..... with their wives and sometimes with some poor foreign countries...hahahahaha.
I am frustrated.... we plant oranges to Uncle Sam, we go to be one of the greatest orange juice producers on earth.... Uncle sam told us.... Precisarr colocarr inoxidable steel here!...need to put inox steel here..... Nóis gostarr ácid and very yellowm this orange...yeaaahhhh american orange..... we like acid and very yellow, this orange, american orange..... we go and we do what Uncle ask us....Amiguinhas bonzinhas, more concentrated please!... good friends, kind guys brazilian, more concentrated juice please...... we done it..... Oh!, muito pouco...need more..... Oh!, not enough, make more!.... and pulled our carpet with my good people stand over it.... we hurt our a---s falling down.... Uncle became bad, and good comercial ideas to US, and decided to give money to their citizens producers.... this way, orange price goes down.....no problem to Smithes, Williamsons, Browns... but f--- us!.... price goes down... our producers with a pain in the ... we sold lower price... this way, american government had the money back.... keep smithies happy and Silvas crying.... hummmm bad trick..... hummmmmmmmmmmmm dirty trick.
Carlos
And i will create another words.... because you have one word and many translations...have to read all sentence to see what's the meaning.... also i will put portuguese "saudade" in the place of "miss you" and will liberate the F---, because people like to say and like to do..... with their wives and sometimes with some poor foreign countries...hahahahaha.
I am frustrated.... we plant oranges to Uncle Sam, we go to be one of the greatest orange juice producers on earth.... Uncle sam told us.... Precisarr colocarr inoxidable steel here!...need to put inox steel here..... Nóis gostarr ácid and very yellowm this orange...yeaaahhhh american orange..... we like acid and very yellow, this orange, american orange..... we go and we do what Uncle ask us....Amiguinhas bonzinhas, more concentrated please!... good friends, kind guys brazilian, more concentrated juice please...... we done it..... Oh!, muito pouco...need more..... Oh!, not enough, make more!.... and pulled our carpet with my good people stand over it.... we hurt our a---s falling down.... Uncle became bad, and good comercial ideas to US, and decided to give money to their citizens producers.... this way, orange price goes down.....no problem to Smithes, Williamsons, Browns... but f--- us!.... price goes down... our producers with a pain in the ... we sold lower price... this way, american government had the money back.... keep smithies happy and Silvas crying.... hummmm bad trick..... hummmmmmmmmmmmm dirty trick.
Carlos
Spelling is nonsense.
I was always thinking about the languages that a spelled completely different than written. Take 'a', depending where it is, it is 'a' or 'ae' or silent. 'E' is not 'e', it is i(short) etc.
I much more like the languages where you spell like you have it written. It is just the logical way to do it.
I was always thinking about the languages that a spelled completely different than written. Take 'a', depending where it is, it is 'a' or 'ae' or silent. 'E' is not 'e', it is i(short) etc.
I much more like the languages where you spell like you have it written. It is just the logical way to do it.
french spelling
Well, my opinion is that english is far from beeing the most difficult language to learn (at least at the beginning). Grammar is quite simple (no declinations like in german). In the meantime vocabulary is much more extended than other european languages ...
Is you're looking for a language that s very difficult to spell, try french. Almost every final letters of a word is silent. For example we put an "s" at the end of words for plural (many thingS) but never prononce it ... and this is just one example.
Well, my opinion is that english is far from beeing the most difficult language to learn (at least at the beginning). Grammar is quite simple (no declinations like in german). In the meantime vocabulary is much more extended than other european languages ...
Is you're looking for a language that s very difficult to spell, try french. Almost every final letters of a word is silent. For example we put an "s" at the end of words for plural (many thingS) but never prononce it ... and this is just one example.
I assume you mean spoken how it it written...
I agree, but you have a problem there:
1. There would be different spellings for different dialects,
and
2. You will have to revise spellings constantly, as the language "evolves".
Many of the strange spellings of English are indeed the way those words used to be pronounced.
Je pense qui le français cette une langue merveilleuse, pour mois est musique.
I think the french language is wonderfull, in my idea seems music
German is hard....seems they are saying bad words to us.
French is easy to me.... almost same as portuguese.... no problems...no problems to understand...loose here one word, but always i can capture the idea.
Langue et civilization française, G Mouger... trois annés au echole
45 years ago, three years studying french in school , basic scholl had English as International Language....only verb to be an pencil, i am a boy, good morning, what time is it.... and french because Rio de Janeiro had french invasion and many french descendents too....our pretty girls.... there the french are, with the back from Africa...hummmmm goood!
We Studied German, Spanish and Deutsch.... the worst was portuguese...... and german declinations too...never could pronunciate ausrufunkstszeichen....i think exclamation!
We like to eat some powder, made from indian root.... germans cannot talk this word with this meal... will be a disaster... will spit everyone!
Good conversation....goooood...like this.
Carlos
I think the french language is wonderfull, in my idea seems music
German is hard....seems they are saying bad words to us.
French is easy to me.... almost same as portuguese.... no problems...no problems to understand...loose here one word, but always i can capture the idea.
Langue et civilization française, G Mouger... trois annés au echole
45 years ago, three years studying french in school , basic scholl had English as International Language....only verb to be an pencil, i am a boy, good morning, what time is it.... and french because Rio de Janeiro had french invasion and many french descendents too....our pretty girls.... there the french are, with the back from Africa...hummmmm goood!
We Studied German, Spanish and Deutsch.... the worst was portuguese...... and german declinations too...never could pronunciate ausrufunkstszeichen....i think exclamation!
We like to eat some powder, made from indian root.... germans cannot talk this word with this meal... will be a disaster... will spit everyone!
Good conversation....goooood...like this.
Carlos
I ve always loved german language. I know my point of view is quite biased (since I m half german, half french). German poetry can be really wonderfull. They had very talentuous poets in the romantic period.
What is true for most languages is also fo german, many dialects many different prononciation. Some are rude, others sounds very round and smooth. The vocabulary is also very rich ... try some pages of the Zaratustra (Nietzsche) ... wonderful.
What is true for most languages is also fo german, many dialects many different prononciation. Some are rude, others sounds very round and smooth. The vocabulary is also very rich ... try some pages of the Zaratustra (Nietzsche) ... wonderful.
spelling reform
I read that the national spelling bee was picketed this year:
Seven members of the American Literacy Society carried signs reading: "I'm thru with through," "Spelling shuud be lojical," and "Spell different difrent."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-06-02-spelling-protest_x.htm
There was a letter to The Economist recently:
M. J. Shields, of Jarrow, England, points out that George Bernard Shaw, among others, urged spelling reform, suggesting that one letter be altered or deleted each year, thus giving the populace time to absorb the change.
Shields writes:
For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased by either "k" or "s," and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might well reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i," and Iear 4 might fiks
the "g-j" anomali wonse and for all.
Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear, with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Ier 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c," "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch," "sh" and "th" rispektivli. Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers of orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld. Haweve,sins xe Wely, xe Airiy, and xe Skots du not spik Ingliy, xei wud hev to hev a speling siutd tu xer oun lengwij. Xei kud, haweve, orlweiz lern Ingliy az a sekond lengwij et skuul! -- Iorz feixfuli, M. J. Yilz.
I read that the national spelling bee was picketed this year:
Seven members of the American Literacy Society carried signs reading: "I'm thru with through," "Spelling shuud be lojical," and "Spell different difrent."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-06-02-spelling-protest_x.htm
There was a letter to The Economist recently:
M. J. Shields, of Jarrow, England, points out that George Bernard Shaw, among others, urged spelling reform, suggesting that one letter be altered or deleted each year, thus giving the populace time to absorb the change.
Shields writes:
For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased by either "k" or "s," and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might well reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i," and Iear 4 might fiks
the "g-j" anomali wonse and for all.
Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear, with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Ier 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c," "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch," "sh" and "th" rispektivli. Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers of orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld. Haweve,sins xe Wely, xe Airiy, and xe Skots du not spik Ingliy, xei wud hev to hev a speling siutd tu xer oun lengwij. Xei kud, haweve, orlweiz lern Ingliy az a sekond lengwij et skuul! -- Iorz feixfuli, M. J. Yilz.
The next thing I would do is to enforce correct pronunciation. For example: The combination of vowel-consonant-vowel would always make the first vowel long as it does in so many words. If there is no second vowel to make the first long, there is no long pronunciation.
So words like host and post, would sound more like cost. (as they should)
The reverse is true also
If the words data or status were meant to be short vowel sounds, they would have to have a second consonant in order to shorten the vowel sound
So: Datta or Stattus (actually I'd prefer that persons just pronounced them correctly in the first place, then I would'nt feel the need to rant as I am)
Anyway, I am enjoying the responses
Cal
So words like host and post, would sound more like cost. (as they should)
The reverse is true also
If the words data or status were meant to be short vowel sounds, they would have to have a second consonant in order to shorten the vowel sound
So: Datta or Stattus (actually I'd prefer that persons just pronounced them correctly in the first place, then I would'nt feel the need to rant as I am)
Anyway, I am enjoying the responses
Cal
The first thing I would do would be to develop possessives or pronouns which do not denote gender. Everyone says, "Sombody left their book on the table". Actually, that is wrong.
It should be "Somebody left his book on the table" if you think it is a boy, and "Somebody left her book on the table" if you think it is a girl.
If you don't know if it is boy or a girl, you are supposed to say, "Somebody left his or her book on the table", which is getting long.
Or, if you want to walk into a minefield, the rule used to be that masculine was assumed unless you knew otherwise. So by this principle it was all right to say, "Somebody left his book on the table", and if it was a girl, she was supposed to think that since the book did not say, "Property of Mrs. Hanley's School for Girls" on the cover, it was okay for the speaker to assume it was a boy.
The problems go beyond children, though. For instance, if you are writing a business letter, and you need to refer to somebody whose name you don't know at that company, you might be tempted to write, "Please tell your supervisor to call us, and we will be glad to make arrangements for him to pick this package up personally".
You are assuming the supervisor is a man, which might not be the case. If it isn't and you are trying to make a pitch to that supervisor, you're off to a bad start.
For one sentence you might be able to say "him or her", but you can't go on like that for too long.
We can adopt "their" for the possessives, but what about the pronouns? Anyone got any ideas?
It should be "Somebody left his book on the table" if you think it is a boy, and "Somebody left her book on the table" if you think it is a girl.
If you don't know if it is boy or a girl, you are supposed to say, "Somebody left his or her book on the table", which is getting long.
Or, if you want to walk into a minefield, the rule used to be that masculine was assumed unless you knew otherwise. So by this principle it was all right to say, "Somebody left his book on the table", and if it was a girl, she was supposed to think that since the book did not say, "Property of Mrs. Hanley's School for Girls" on the cover, it was okay for the speaker to assume it was a boy.
The problems go beyond children, though. For instance, if you are writing a business letter, and you need to refer to somebody whose name you don't know at that company, you might be tempted to write, "Please tell your supervisor to call us, and we will be glad to make arrangements for him to pick this package up personally".
You are assuming the supervisor is a man, which might not be the case. If it isn't and you are trying to make a pitch to that supervisor, you're off to a bad start.
For one sentence you might be able to say "him or her", but you can't go on like that for too long.
We can adopt "their" for the possessives, but what about the pronouns? Anyone got any ideas?
I'd sort it out, if it wasn't in such a mess.....
Personal pronouns? Just call them "it"
Eg I told it to do the washing-up......
More trouble:
Why is the entity zero a singular?
Eg None is available. Yes I know lots would say are
What does "inflamable" mean? Is it the same as imflamable? Which one is flamable?
Why do UK and US English have opposite rules for what follows a colon and semi-colon?
Software writers don't help:
Why does M$ Word 2000 occasionally insist on replacing is with am and making me sound as if I speak a Carribean dialect?
Why does M$ Word 95 offer Nazi as a synonym of Aerian
Personal pronouns? Just call them "it"
Eg I told it to do the washing-up......
More trouble:
Why is the entity zero a singular?
Eg None is available. Yes I know lots would say are
What does "inflamable" mean? Is it the same as imflamable? Which one is flamable?
Why do UK and US English have opposite rules for what follows a colon and semi-colon?
Software writers don't help:
Why does M$ Word 2000 occasionally insist on replacing is with am and making me sound as if I speak a Carribean dialect?
Why does M$ Word 95 offer Nazi as a synonym of Aerian
You say tomato, I say tomato.
You spell potatoe, I spell potato.
I err on the side of caution, others er on the side of caution. But then we all make errors, or is it erors?
Then some say primmer when they mean primer, as in:
"This book is a primmer for students wanting to learn proper English."
What's it all about? ...or is it aboot? ...or aboat? ...abowt? eh? We can thank the people from the Rock for that one.
To me the nicest language is Italian. It sounds melodic - the language of opera.
fred p.
You spell potatoe, I spell potato.
I err on the side of caution, others er on the side of caution. But then we all make errors, or is it erors?
Then some say primmer when they mean primer, as in:
"This book is a primmer for students wanting to learn proper English."
What's it all about? ...or is it aboot? ...or aboat? ...abowt? eh? We can thank the people from the Rock for that one.
To me the nicest language is Italian. It sounds melodic - the language of opera.
fred p.
Re: Blame Canada
Dear Sy,
I must assure you the first assumption about pronunciation is most incorrect.
Out and about are pronounced the same as gout or pout where I come from.
I'm a guessin' you be tinkin' aboot the Newfies eh?
And trust me, I'm on my own in this crusade, other northerners just shake their head at ol' Cal when this comes up.
Ending a sentence with eh is a verbal thing eh, like we don't do that in our written stuff eh. And thanks for the pronunciation key.
Are we floppy headed?
Time for a glass of Napa Valley's finest Sy.
Cal
SY said:
Dear Sy,
I must assure you the first assumption about pronunciation is most incorrect.
Out and about are pronounced the same as gout or pout where I come from.
I'm a guessin' you be tinkin' aboot the Newfies eh?
And trust me, I'm on my own in this crusade, other northerners just shake their head at ol' Cal when this comes up.
Ending a sentence with eh is a verbal thing eh, like we don't do that in our written stuff eh. And thanks for the pronunciation key.
Are we floppy headed?
Time for a glass of Napa Valley's finest Sy.
Cal
Actually Cal, Ross McDonald, famous mystery writer of Canadian origin, made a point of explaining in one of his novels the same thing that SY said about the Canadian pronounciation of "about". He says it sounds like "aboat".
The difference helped to solve the mystery.
I caught a couple of Canadian football games on TV and it seems to me the announcers were pronouncing it more like "aboot". I didn't notice it that much , though, as I was trying to get over the shock of watching those guys punt on third down.
The difference helped to solve the mystery.
I caught a couple of Canadian football games on TV and it seems to me the announcers were pronouncing it more like "aboot". I didn't notice it that much , though, as I was trying to get over the shock of watching those guys punt on third down.
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