the Stockholm Environment institute says so.
this is in part due to tax breaks for airlines and fuels, as well as proliferation of cheap discount airlines in Europe: if journeys of less than 400 miles are carried out by trains (which are widely available in Europe), the # of flights in Europe can be reduced by almost half.
one of its co-authors commented that at the moment Europeans have cheap flights and some of the most expensive railways in the world. That is the wrong way around. one of the solutions is to raise airfares to pay fully for the environmental damages caused by flights.
Before that, all environmentally concerned EU citizens are encouraged to voluntarily double their fares to send a message to the airlines and to help the environment.
this is in part due to tax breaks for airlines and fuels, as well as proliferation of cheap discount airlines in Europe: if journeys of less than 400 miles are carried out by trains (which are widely available in Europe), the # of flights in Europe can be reduced by almost half.
one of its co-authors commented that at the moment Europeans have cheap flights and some of the most expensive railways in the world. That is the wrong way around. one of the solutions is to raise airfares to pay fully for the environmental damages caused by flights.
Before that, all environmentally concerned EU citizens are encouraged to voluntarily double their fares to send a message to the airlines and to help the environment.
How abour some "refreshments":
Some headlines:
- Air Freight is Fastest Growing Segment of U.S. Cargo Economy; New Study Tracks Trends in $29 Billion Dollar-A-Day Cargo Industry
- BTS Releases March Airline Traffic Data; March 2004 Domestic Traffic Up 7.4 Percent From March 2003
Some facts:
- System Mileage Within the United States (Statute miles)(1960: 207,334Mi; 2001: 128,495Mi)
- U.S. Passenger-Miles (Millions) (1960: Air - 33,399 Mi Rail - 17,064Mi; 2001: Air - 502,359Mi Rail - 5,559Mi). Should I add the highway too?
- Principal Means of Transportation to Work (Thousands)(1985: Automobile - 86.5% Public transportation - 5.1%; 2001: Automobile - 87.8% Public transportation - 4.7%)
Have fun, would ya?
Some headlines:
- Air Freight is Fastest Growing Segment of U.S. Cargo Economy; New Study Tracks Trends in $29 Billion Dollar-A-Day Cargo Industry
- BTS Releases March Airline Traffic Data; March 2004 Domestic Traffic Up 7.4 Percent From March 2003
Some facts:
- System Mileage Within the United States (Statute miles)(1960: 207,334Mi; 2001: 128,495Mi)
- U.S. Passenger-Miles (Millions) (1960: Air - 33,399 Mi Rail - 17,064Mi; 2001: Air - 502,359Mi Rail - 5,559Mi). Should I add the highway too?
- Principal Means of Transportation to Work (Thousands)(1985: Automobile - 86.5% Public transportation - 5.1%; 2001: Automobile - 87.8% Public transportation - 4.7%)
Have fun, would ya?
I rather like the European train experience, but am aware that it's extremely uneconomical- it needs heavy subsidy (i.e., transfer of assets at the point of a gun from the productive to the unproductive) to make it work. And while it's fine if you're going from, say, Paris to Marseilles, it gets pretty hairy if you want to go from, say, Lyon to Vienna. The latter trip is an hour by air, but nearly 10 hours by train, with two changes and tight connections which can turn it into a two-day trip.
The reality is that the air is getting cleaner, at least here in the US. I'm skeptical about the claims of horrible ecological damage wreaked by airplanes. I wonder if it's a mutation of the "chem-trails" hoax so popular among US conspiracy theorists?
The reality is that the air is getting cleaner, at least here in the US. I'm skeptical about the claims of horrible ecological damage wreaked by airplanes. I wonder if it's a mutation of the "chem-trails" hoax so popular among US conspiracy theorists?
roibm said:look who's talkin'
take care of your own mess would you?
tell us now who flies more... who rides more often the train, how about the railroads(eu vs us)
OK. so it is environmentally horrible to burn a few watts running class a amps but it is just fine to ruin our skies?
Thanks, roobbies, for your neo environmental thinking.
roibm said:
looking who's talking? ha?
Can you just take care of your own mess before telling us what to do?
In the mean time, we will continue to run our class a amps, drive our big SUVs, and drop our bombs wherever we feel like it. and you cannot do a thing about it. ha!
BTW, I much like your new signature. It is cool.
SY said:
Boeing and Airbus have done extensive research into the transportation systems in Europe and their views are available in their market outlook for Europe, as well as some big name aerospace players (Royce Rolls and Bombardier for example). the concensus seems to be that it is a matter of time for the EU names to rely more heavily on air travel. and reduce rail traffic. Thus the popularity of European discount airlines.
The environmental research is I think timed to counter that.
How Ironic...
As I'm reading this, I get an e-mail of photos of the Airbus A380-900. It will be the largest commercial airliner ever built. Carrying 656 passengers in three classes and 840 in one class/charter. They have reportedly not been able to meet their weight targets, (by many tons) so the efficiency estimates will fall short - way short I suspect.
All this from Airbus - the great Euro-aerospace corporation that gets bailed out of bad business descisions by the French and German taxpayers, on an as-needed basis.
Enjoy your new behemoth roibm - you've payed well for it.
As I'm reading this, I get an e-mail of photos of the Airbus A380-900. It will be the largest commercial airliner ever built. Carrying 656 passengers in three classes and 840 in one class/charter. They have reportedly not been able to meet their weight targets, (by many tons) so the efficiency estimates will fall short - way short I suspect.
All this from Airbus - the great Euro-aerospace corporation that gets bailed out of bad business descisions by the French and German taxpayers, on an as-needed basis.
Enjoy your new behemoth roibm - you've payed well for it.
Attachments
Re: How Ironic...
Airbus distributed a multi-media presentation on a cd-rom for the then A3xx a few years back (around 2000 as I recall) to aerospace analyst. It is pretty amazing the amount of engineering that goes into.
There are two distinct views on the A380: one was that Boeing tricked Airbus into building that A380 and it will be the end of Airbus: having designed and almost went bankruptc for the 747, Boeing should know that's into such a plane.
The counter PoV is that the A380 will break Boeing's dominance in the trans-oceanic traffic (transatlantic and transpacific), and propel Airbus into the leadership position, much as the 747 did to Boeing: these days, the air traffic growth is mostly in Asia (more precisely to and from Asia).
Boein is getting a lot of traction for the 7E7 and banking its future (for long range craft anyway) on that platform.
Lusso5 said:
Airbus distributed a multi-media presentation on a cd-rom for the then A3xx a few years back (around 2000 as I recall) to aerospace analyst. It is pretty amazing the amount of engineering that goes into.
There are two distinct views on the A380: one was that Boeing tricked Airbus into building that A380 and it will be the end of Airbus: having designed and almost went bankruptc for the 747, Boeing should know that's into such a plane.
The counter PoV is that the A380 will break Boeing's dominance in the trans-oceanic traffic (transatlantic and transpacific), and propel Airbus into the leadership position, much as the 747 did to Boeing: these days, the air traffic growth is mostly in Asia (more precisely to and from Asia).
Boein is getting a lot of traction for the 7E7 and banking its future (for long range craft anyway) on that platform.
roibm said:hey, some of you forgot to say who flies more...
Who flys more? But aren't your usual arguments - "The USA builds and drives gas-guzzling oversized SUV, etc. etc." I've never seen your point being we drive too much. My point was the French/German-Airbus is building the Hummer of the skies...
I guess I, also, did fail to mention that IMO the environmental impact of jet emissions is minimal. I would also point out that there are serious gaps in the research done on the issue, not to mention the heavy reliance on sketchy modeling.
cars are becoming more efficient than trains
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/06/21/ncar21.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/06/21/ixnewstop.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/06/21/ncar21.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/06/21/ixnewstop.html
Lusso5 said:
Boeing bet them to it
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B.VDBOS said:
Boeing bet them to it
For one, the fuselage of that aircraft is about 1/4 the size of the new airbus; two, the plane is 50 years old; three, the smoke you see is a byproduct of water-injection, used at takeoff for increased thrust. It may increase particulate matter (smoke), but it actually reduces NOx emissions; four, I dont think a military aircraft is applicable to this thread.
Makes my heart soar like a hawk seeing 8 jet engines belching smoke. I can only hope he's heavily burdened with kisses for Sadam or some other pi$$ ant terrorist. Maybe Yassir Arafat?
Maybe we'll find those WMD's in Syria next year
Brian/ loves to smoke tires in 4.7L Dodge Durango... just for $hits and giggles
Maybe we'll find those WMD's in Syria next year
Brian/ loves to smoke tires in 4.7L Dodge Durango... just for $hits and giggles
Brian Donaldson said:
It would have to be a pi$$ ant because you only fight the weakest poeple on planet Earth
Maybe we'll find those WMD's in Syria next
year
You are in the middle of a humiliating defeat in the Iraqi war (and thats at the hands of a made up, not real, B.S enemy
) You army is old and spent and your millatary tactics are well known thus out of date
so I dont think so
Why dont you drive around with your brakes on so you can learn us all a good lesson about nothing at all
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