JD Power just finished its long-term dependability survey.
the germans continue to suffer. Of the the four German manufacturers, none leads any of the 17 catagories. and two of them fell below industry average, and trail such names like GM and Ford.
VW, notably, is in the company of Hyundai, Isuzu, Daewoo, and Kia.
the only German brands that scored above average are Porsche and BMW (barely above average). Porsche has been the most consistent player of the four in terms of quality.
no wonder they have to offer iDrive to keep their customers focused on things other than quality,
the germans continue to suffer. Of the the four German manufacturers, none leads any of the 17 catagories. and two of them fell below industry average, and trail such names like GM and Ford.
VW, notably, is in the company of Hyundai, Isuzu, Daewoo, and Kia.
the only German brands that scored above average are Porsche and BMW (barely above average). Porsche has been the most consistent player of the four in terms of quality.
no wonder they have to offer iDrive to keep their customers focused on things other than quality,
While my modified Golf 1.8T was still one of my favorite cars, it was not without fault. I'm still thinking of getting a TDI when the 2005s hit; Its about time to retire my current work vehicle.
Your post made me laugh though, and dig up this old pic someone sent me. The cars may be designed by fine German engineers, but they're assembled by these guys:
Your post made me laugh though, and dig up this old pic someone sent me. The cars may be designed by fine German engineers, but they're assembled by these guys:
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Lusso5 said:
I thought that Golf is built in Germany and only the Jetta is out of Mexico.
Well, VW is doing very well in China. So well, as a matter of fact that they had their last annual meeting in Shanghai. so pretty soon, we will be driving China-made VWs.
BTW, I am on my 2nd set of brakes / rotors for my BMW, a year into its ownership. Good I just returned my Audi.
North American VWs are made in:
Brazil: Golf & GTI
Mexico: Beetle, Jetta sedan
Germany: Phaeton, Passats, Jetta wagon
Slovakia: Touareg
The new Golf V (2005) I hear is going to be made in Mexico though. From what I hear, that is where the worst of the problems come from.
What kind of BMWs/Audis have you owned? I've thrown a few E36s and A4s around the track. If I didnt log so many miles, I'd likely buy a good E36.
Brazil: Golf & GTI
Mexico: Beetle, Jetta sedan
Germany: Phaeton, Passats, Jetta wagon
Slovakia: Touareg
The new Golf V (2005) I hear is going to be made in Mexico though. From what I hear, that is where the worst of the problems come from.
What kind of BMWs/Audis have you owned? I've thrown a few E36s and A4s around the track. If I didnt log so many miles, I'd likely buy a good E36.
Lusso5 said:
I have a 2003 330 and had a 2001/2 a6 2.7t. the bmw has been relatively stable, other than the brakes. the other fault is its navigation system: it failed go guide us back from DC to NYC, and it couldn't find my friend's house in DC. I guess it is in part due to the map not being updated as frequently.
the audi is another story all together: leaky sunroof, electric malfunction (it would lose radio statations randomly), sudden shifts in transmission, and burnt bulbs. our dealer also didn't exactly provide the best service. a co-worker has an allroad and its sensors went off during the coldest spills we had last year. Luckily the car continued to function.
Saw a C32 AMG the other day. a beautiful looking car. very tempting.
Magura said:You forgot to mention the price of the bulbs for the headlight of an Audi A6.....in Denmark they set you back a little more than 200 USD a piece
Magura
mine had hid headlights. they last practically forever. But if they do break for whatever reasons, I am sure my lovely audi dealer wouldn't be hesitant charging me.
Credit where credit is due...
My VW Passat had wonderful build quality, made in Germany I think, and ran for nearly 100,000 miles before it's only failure (a sensor).
My Audi TT seems of equal quality and is made in Hungary. It's only done 12,000 miles so far, but I'm not expecting problems.
My opinion of UK available products' build quality:
1. German (VW, Audi, BMW etc)
2. Japanese (Toyota, Nissan, Honda etc)
3. European/scandinavian (Volvo, Peugeot, Seat etc)
4. European/US (Ford, GM etc)
5. Far East (Kia, Hyundai etc)
I think this probably shared by many people here in the UK.
Of course manufacturers occasionally disgrace themselves with an epidemic problem they try to cover up, eg VW ignition coils. Fortunately mine was a diesel.
My VW Passat had wonderful build quality, made in Germany I think, and ran for nearly 100,000 miles before it's only failure (a sensor).
My Audi TT seems of equal quality and is made in Hungary. It's only done 12,000 miles so far, but I'm not expecting problems.
My opinion of UK available products' build quality:
1. German (VW, Audi, BMW etc)
2. Japanese (Toyota, Nissan, Honda etc)
3. European/scandinavian (Volvo, Peugeot, Seat etc)
4. European/US (Ford, GM etc)
5. Far East (Kia, Hyundai etc)
I think this probably shared by many people here in the UK.
Of course manufacturers occasionally disgrace themselves with an epidemic problem they try to cover up, eg VW ignition coils. Fortunately mine was a diesel.
dhaen, I've also got a Passat, non-diesel. VW US has taken the opposite stance here regarding the ignition coils- I must have gotten a dozen cards and letters from them urging me to bring the car in. This despite the fact that my car was apparently made in a production run following their correction of the problem.
FWIW, I've got two Mazdas ('91 RX7 convertable and '93 Miata) which have over 150,000 miles each with no sever problems, either. I keep hearing that so-called American cars have overcome their quality and reliability issues, but I'm not exactly panting to find out for myself.
FWIW, I've got two Mazdas ('91 RX7 convertable and '93 Miata) which have over 150,000 miles each with no sever problems, either. I keep hearing that so-called American cars have overcome their quality and reliability issues, but I'm not exactly panting to find out for myself.
My Golf was a 2001, and I went 60k with no ignition coil failures. I must have missed the bad run as well.
Did you get the letter from the class-action lawsuit, relating to the coil issues? I did. A woman in CA sued VW and won a few cool million set aside so VW owners can make claims pertaining to coil issues (e.g. overnight stays, wrecker service, anything out of pocket).
Regarding a build-quality list, I would have to put Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura at the top; from personal and the experience of others, not to mention the stats.
Did you get the letter from the class-action lawsuit, relating to the coil issues? I did. A woman in CA sued VW and won a few cool million set aside so VW owners can make claims pertaining to coil issues (e.g. overnight stays, wrecker service, anything out of pocket).
Regarding a build-quality list, I would have to put Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura at the top; from personal and the experience of others, not to mention the stats.
Well I don't quite know what Millwood is trying to do here. Perhaps it's mis-placed patriotism. By rubbishing competition he is doing his home grown car industry no favours at all. I owe the German car industry nothing - I paid, but by rubbishing competition rather than noting it's strengths, you are taking your eye off the ball. This happened with the electronics industry, the motorcycle industry and now the car industry. I can't hear any German's saying "Ford is rubbish, so we need not try and compete".
SY,
My best previous cars were Mitsubishi - when they were made in Japan
, but by rubbishing competition rather than noting it's strengths, you are taking your eye off the ball. This happened with the electronics industry, the motorcycle industry and now the car industry. I can't hear any German's saying "Ford is rubbish, so we need not try and compete".SY,
My best previous cars were Mitsubishi - when they were made in Japan
The best thing (for me ) is that the perceived lack of quality of American cars means they're dirt cheap used. That, plus the fact that over here the parts are cheaper too, makes it so that you can get some real bargains if you're willing to turn a wrench. No, my Ford Contour (Mondeo, to the rest of the world) isn't as nice as a VW or Audi, but I could buy three of them for the price of a similar Passat.
) is that the perceived lack of quality of American cars means they're dirt cheap used. That, plus the fact that over here the parts are cheaper too, makes it so that you can get some real bargains if you're willing to turn a wrench. No, my Ford Contour (Mondeo, to the rest of the world) isn't as nice as a VW or Audi, but I could buy three of them for the price of a similar Passat.Rob M said:
That's absolutely correct. GM in particular has done a good job in the quality depart. the CTS is highly ranked and bet out the new 5-series in most magazine reviews. Having ridden in a friend's one, I would definitely consider the CTS for my next car.
Rob M said:
the Contour with the 2.5v6 and manual trans is a hard to beat car. It can handle with the best of them.
I've always bought second hand Dodge. Expecially for company cars. 2 years ago I got a 94 Dodge Caravan with 3.3L and 125,000 miles for $2600. Now 2 years later with 160,000 miles, It's had a new water pump and 2 brake job (due to my employees poor driving habits) with no sign of the Grim Reaper behind it. I gave him a company car in lue of a $1.00/hr raise. I came out the winner big time.
Last quarter I bought a 99 Plymouth Grand Voyager (same thing) with 80,000 miled for $4500. You got to love american car depriciation.
I'm considering a 2002-2003 Mercedes 320 CLK cabriolet. If the used market isn't soft enough to justify used, I may buy 2005. Does anyone have an opinion of its build quality?
Last quarter I bought a 99 Plymouth Grand Voyager (same thing) with 80,000 miled for $4500. You got to love american car depriciation.
I'm considering a 2002-2003 Mercedes 320 CLK cabriolet. If the used market isn't soft enough to justify used, I may buy 2005. Does anyone have an opinion of its build quality?
millwood said:
The Chevy S10 (small pickup) has been dead reliable (new battery, new tires, brake pads in 140k km). I prefer the Suburu, but it has had a few more problems with a little less mileage (broken gas low sensor, broken rear wiper motor -- and on Wed next i get to see what is causing an intermittent in the starter).
I'd buy either of these vehicles again.
dave
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