fdegrove said:Hi,
As far as I'm concerned it has always been like that anyway...
If you have an idea and you post it into a public domain chances are someone will try to commercialise it if they think it's worth the effort.
In this case it wasn't about the money, not directly anyway, but about the abuse of a persons' name and I/P without that persons' consent.
You wonder where the piefights come from? Stop wondering...
Cheers,
I know its allways been like that with ideas on public domains, but it seems its become a downright shameless matter with little or no respect for other people.
Oups, got the PA issue wrong then, all people seem to ramble about is the big bucks he makes, if thats not the issue, but IP is, I stand corrected.
Magura
Hi,
That's not the only issue, that's just what started the whole thing
as far as P-A goes.
You don't see him denying much of what he's accused of, do you?
Here's something to think about with straight yes/no answers:
Should someone who's trying to sell his goods ("his" meaning, PCBs stuffed by said person/company) be allowed to moderate the forum, while unashamedly mining the forum and its members for his next idea to go to market with?
Yes/No?
Will this person/company have retained sufficient street credibility to do his moderator job properly after this is sufficiently known among members?
Yes/No?
If you, as a member, would have a say in who would be eligible for the next opening as moderator, would you then choose a person in a similar situation?
Yes/No?
This could go on for a long time but I think I made my point....
Cheers,
That's not the only issue, that's just what started the whole thing
as far as P-A goes.
You don't see him denying much of what he's accused of, do you?
Here's something to think about with straight yes/no answers:
Should someone who's trying to sell his goods ("his" meaning, PCBs stuffed by said person/company) be allowed to moderate the forum, while unashamedly mining the forum and its members for his next idea to go to market with?
Yes/No?
Will this person/company have retained sufficient street credibility to do his moderator job properly after this is sufficiently known among members?
Yes/No?
If you, as a member, would have a say in who would be eligible for the next opening as moderator, would you then choose a person in a similar situation?
Yes/No?
This could go on for a long time but I think I made my point....
Cheers,
So what about this suggestion.
Per-Anders sits down and thinks about whether he thinks he
still has enough credibility among a sufficient number of members
to continue as a moderator. (I am not suggesting a predefined
answer to this, let him think it through himself).
The mods offer Jam and Till to join the team to get some fresh
blood with a different point of view. If they turn down the
offer, it will be much harder for them to complain about the
moderators afterwards, at least I have found it is since I
was offered such a position and turned it down.
Per-Anders sits down and thinks about whether he thinks he
still has enough credibility among a sufficient number of members
to continue as a moderator. (I am not suggesting a predefined
answer to this, let him think it through himself).
The mods offer Jam and Till to join the team to get some fresh
blood with a different point of view. If they turn down the
offer, it will be much harder for them to complain about the
moderators afterwards, at least I have found it is since I
was offered such a position and turned it down.
GET REAL!!!!!!!!!
They will close this place down before that happens.
No, they have given pleny of clues as to what type of person they seek as a moderator. Not all fit the profile that I conjure up in my mind, but have any of you guys noticed a common attribute that they share?
(Like I said.....not all...........)
Guess what.......to a greedy capitalist like me......I know one when I smell one.
Some just smell worse than others.
Jocko
They will close this place down before that happens.
No, they have given pleny of clues as to what type of person they seek as a moderator. Not all fit the profile that I conjure up in my mind, but have any of you guys noticed a common attribute that they share?
(Like I said.....not all...........)
Guess what.......to a greedy capitalist like me......I know one when I smell one.
Some just smell worse than others.
Jocko
Hi,
I know the outcome of that already...
What if he "thinks" he does?
Then what? Elections, referendum, global strike, pull the plug?
Why on earth do you think you now have less of a right to complain about what you feel is going wrong than before you were offered the opening as a moderator?
Sorry, I fail to see the logic in that, Christer.
Cheers,
I know the outcome of that already...
What if he "thinks" he does?
Then what? Elections, referendum, global strike, pull the plug?
Why on earth do you think you now have less of a right to complain about what you feel is going wrong than before you were offered the opening as a moderator?
Sorry, I fail to see the logic in that, Christer.
Cheers,
fdegrove said:
At least it gives him a chance to step down voluntarely and
gracefully before the riots start, or maybe they have already.
Peter stepped down voluntarily, although under some pressure
from Jason, as I understand it.
I may not have a less right, but I feel it would be morally wrong
to complain too much about something if I was offered a
chance to affect it. Besides, the mods do a lot of hard work
for us, and I think it is a bit unfair to complain too much about
what they do but refuse to do the work oneself. YMMV.
Hi,
Is anyone stopping him from doing just that? I don't think so.
But yes, you're right, it's a little late to do it with dignity...as if he cares anyway.
Doesn't that tell it all?
I recall Peter specifically wrote "webmaster". That's not necessarily Jason.
I agree that most of them do all the hard work. I'm well aware how hard it can be, believe me...So yes, my mileage does vary.
Still, you can't help but wonder why they put up with all the criticism thanks to someone else...
I know I wouldn't let it go unnoticed....Yet, they're not complaining, you don't see any peer pressure form them?
Why?
Cheers,
Is anyone stopping him from doing just that? I don't think so.
But yes, you're right, it's a little late to do it with dignity...as if he cares anyway.
Doesn't that tell it all?
I recall Peter specifically wrote "webmaster". That's not necessarily Jason.
I agree that most of them do all the hard work. I'm well aware how hard it can be, believe me...So yes, my mileage does vary.
Still, you can't help but wonder why they put up with all the criticism thanks to someone else...
I know I wouldn't let it go unnoticed....Yet, they're not complaining, you don't see any peer pressure form them?
Why?
Cheers,
Conspiracy theory time.......
Did he really step down......or was he forced to step down......?
Unfortunately, anything that Peter says.....even if it is true...won't be believed by many. The air of "all animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others" has already been created. Under such an environment, it will difficult for the complete truth to surface and be believed.
Sad.
But......let us say.....whatever happened, it happened for one reason only:
It was bad for business.
Jocko
Did he really step down......or was he forced to step down......?
Unfortunately, anything that Peter says.....even if it is true...won't be believed by many. The air of "all animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others" has already been created. Under such an environment, it will difficult for the complete truth to surface and be believed.
Sad.
But......let us say.....whatever happened, it happened for one reason only:
It was bad for business.
Jocko
If there is any reason to stay here, they would stay here.
If diyers get values from other diyers and experienced people, they would stay here.
If experienced people are kind to give their tips to diyers, they would stay here.
If experienced people are respected with their experiences, they would stay here.
If experienced people do not mind of technical debating with others, they would stay here.
If commercial people understand these, we may welcome them.
Meanwhile, if commercial people believe that this place is useful mainly for their marketing, they do their utmost to live here. And, they are ready to do whatever it works for their best marketing. To them, others do not matter much. They would live here.
I hope we know who are who..............................................!!!
Long live diyAudio...............................................................???
NB: *** These are not diyAudio rules. ***
If diyers get values from other diyers and experienced people, they would stay here.
If experienced people are kind to give their tips to diyers, they would stay here.
If experienced people are respected with their experiences, they would stay here.
If experienced people do not mind of technical debating with others, they would stay here.
If commercial people understand these, we may welcome them.
Meanwhile, if commercial people believe that this place is useful mainly for their marketing, they do their utmost to live here. And, they are ready to do whatever it works for their best marketing. To them, others do not matter much. They would live here.
I hope we know who are who..............................................!!!
Long live diyAudio...............................................................???
NB: *** These are not diyAudio rules. ***
If you can´t beat them -- buy them?
I don´t want to be moderator, i want there to be some kind of influence form memebers to moderators. Some control. At the moment they can do wahtever they want - move threads they don´t like, don´t give reasons for it, sinbin without warnings before for reasons not acceptable, sell storys noone can belive as truth. They can give advice to members everyone must see as insult like PA told me to stop email exchange with halo. Nothing happens. Bad politicians you can vote out...
This is the wrong strukture to be a moderator in. I would not take any office und this kind of "constitution" .
I don´t want to be moderator, i want there to be some kind of influence form memebers to moderators. Some control. At the moment they can do wahtever they want - move threads they don´t like, don´t give reasons for it, sinbin without warnings before for reasons not acceptable, sell storys noone can belive as truth. They can give advice to members everyone must see as insult like PA told me to stop email exchange with halo. Nothing happens. Bad politicians you can vote out...
This is the wrong strukture to be a moderator in. I would not take any office und this kind of "constitution" .
fdegrove said:
I didn't mean anyone is stopping him. I rather meant that
maybe the idea hasn't even crossed his mind, which is why
I suggested he at least thinks about it and makes a decision
whether to continue or step down.
There seems to be a common thing in human nature to show
loyalty to groups one belong to, sometimes to the extreme.
We have seen several such cases in company boards in recent
years where things are getting totally out of control, yet
nobody tried to stop it from inside or tell about it. I am not
saying this is happening in the moderators team and I
sincerely hope it isn't. I just mean that if it were happening,
it wouldn't really be surprising.
If someone learns how to do something here and has the marketing ability to sell it, how is that a problem?
Especially if they are actually helping other people out too. It isn't a zero sum game. There are plenty of people that would like to buy better sounding equipment than what the big companies would like to sell us.
If they start abusing things and using the board to promote their wares and doing nothing to share expertise with anyone, you can then just ignore them. Most of the posts I've seen are about real projects.
I would like to see more fully-fleshed kits anyway. I want to build something, but there are some economies of scale if someone is able to put together enough parts to make several kits and sell them.
It is still DIY, and perhaps they make a modest amount of money for the time they spent ordering the parts, counting them out into kits, creating instructions and so on. Even if there was a premium placed on the cost of the kit over buying the stuff yourself, the savings in time and effort would be immense, especially for people like me that have never built an amp before.
It it was a high-profit business, then Heathkit would be still operational.
Especially if they are actually helping other people out too. It isn't a zero sum game. There are plenty of people that would like to buy better sounding equipment than what the big companies would like to sell us.
If they start abusing things and using the board to promote their wares and doing nothing to share expertise with anyone, you can then just ignore them. Most of the posts I've seen are about real projects.
I would like to see more fully-fleshed kits anyway. I want to build something, but there are some economies of scale if someone is able to put together enough parts to make several kits and sell them.
It is still DIY, and perhaps they make a modest amount of money for the time they spent ordering the parts, counting them out into kits, creating instructions and so on. Even if there was a premium placed on the cost of the kit over buying the stuff yourself, the savings in time and effort would be immense, especially for people like me that have never built an amp before.
It it was a high-profit business, then Heathkit would be still operational.
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