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What kind of evidence do you consider as sufficient?
What kind of evidence do you consider as sufficient?
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Old 20th July 2018, 10:40 AM   #1
Jakob2 is offline Jakob2  Germany
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Default What kind of evidence do you consider as sufficient?

Whenever controversial audio effects (resp. the audibility of those effects) are discussed then sooner or later the demand to provide evidence occurrs, mainly as demand to do some sort of "blind test" .

Letīs assume that level matching is given, what else (wrt test conditions) is needed so that you would consider the evidence as sufficient although you were previously convinced that no difference can be heard?

Last edited by Jakob2; 20th July 2018 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 20th July 2018, 10:57 AM   #2
RNMarsh is online now RNMarsh  United States
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What kind of evidence do you consider as sufficient?
If a huge majority of people from all over the planet say they hear something the same way as the others.... That should be good enough.


-Richard
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Old 20th July 2018, 11:00 AM   #3
Chris Daly is offline Chris Daly  Australia
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You need to be listening to a audio component that is capable of delivering the audible changes.
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Old 20th July 2018, 11:05 AM   #4
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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It would help if those involved in the test had no financial interest in the outcome - or at the very least declared any such interest. Reputational interest can also be an issue.
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Old 20th July 2018, 11:08 AM   #5
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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The evidence can only come from what people say, if you are looking for proof, forget it
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Old 20th July 2018, 12:31 PM   #6
00940 is offline 00940  Belgium
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First of, a claim must be made. It means the testing starts with someone who claims to be able to hear something in sighting listening with a particular system.

If we're speaking "evidence", then the factor under test has to be isolated as much as possible. It has to mean blind testing, keeping the system under test as similar as possible to the one that allowed a claim to be made.

I'm not very strict on how "blindness" is achieved. But if the test has to convice people, then it must involve a fair third party (with no particular interest in the outcome) to control the process.

And finally, the test has to be documented, so it can be reproduced.

It has been made clear that blind testing is stressful but I don't see how to avoid its use. Restricting the test to a very particular claim (allowing for training if needed) and allowing the person taking the test as much familiarity with the test setup as he wants might help.
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Old 20th July 2018, 02:08 PM   #7
kevinahcc20 is offline kevinahcc20  United States
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The science of measuring human response is well developed so no real inventions are required. It begings with a hypothesis, typically a null hypothesis such as:

-The audible signature of Cable A cannot be distinguished from Cable B

An experimental apparatus is constructed to allow a listening panel to test the hypothesis. It is critical that niether the listening panel nor the experimenter conducting the trial can detect which experimental variant (Cable A or B) is currently in circuit. The panel would then be exposed to multiple randomized sessions in which each cable is auditioned and the listeners would signal a preference at designated intervals. Once the data is collected the null hypothesis is tested to determine the outcome of the experiment. An outcome accepting the null hypothesis would show scores for the preference of around 50% indicating the panel randomly chose either cable as preferred. Statistical techniques such as the Student's T-test would assess the probability that the null hypothesis was rejected and the panel was therefore able to detect a difference in the audible signature. In thye event the null hypothesis was rejected follow-on tests could be designed to more narrowly charaterize the differences detected by the panel.
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Old 20th July 2018, 02:15 PM   #8
Waly is offline Waly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakob2 View Post
Whenever controversial audio effects (resp. the audibility of those effects) are discussed then sooner or later the demand to provide evidence occurrs, mainly as demand to do some sort of "blind test" .

Letīs assume that level matching is given, what else (wrt test conditions) is needed so that you would consider the evidence as sufficient although you were previously convinced that no difference can be heard?
Wrong question, to start with. You need to define a hypothesis before looking into a) what kind of test would fit and b) what would be considered proof (or disproof) of the hypothesis. There is no one size fits all approach.
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Old 20th July 2018, 04:51 PM   #9
Badge is offline Badge  United States
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I am God and master of my hearing and perceptions. Trying to tell my I am wrong is a waste of your time and disgusting.
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Old 20th July 2018, 04:54 PM   #10
gpauk is offline gpauk  Scotland
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No religion here, please...

And +1 kevin and waly... that about sums it up.
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