What kind of evidence do you consider as sufficient?

[scott wurcer]

If a huge majority of people from all over the planet say they hear something the same way as the others.... That should be good enough.

If you could present a single case of that I would be interested. Same thing/ same way has a meaning in this context which to me is the same gear, the same source material, under the same conditions. Frankly it has never happened for "a huge majority of people".

 

[00940]

@Evenharmonics and DPH: my answer is part of an ongoing discussion with Jakob. The issue of stress came up earlier and that sentence was just a way to acknowledge the part of truth in it. Please don't read too much into it.

 

[DPH]

My point was that stress and cognitive load in sensory tests are real and documented in literature.

 

[TonyTecson]

It would help if those involved in the test had no financial interest in the outcome - or at the very least declared any such interest. Reputational interest can also be an issue.

yes, stay away from people trying to sell you goods, or enticing you to part with your money, run away as fast as you can...

 

[planet10]

#4 here:
http://nyarlathotep33.free.fr/hfr/TenAudioLies.pdf

Nice piece of staire that.

dave

 

[TonyTecson]

if science and physics conforms with the explanations given,
i am willing to listen, otherwise, opinions hardly matters to me..

 

[scottjoplin]

yes, stay away from people trying to sell you goods, or enticing you to part with your money, run away as fast as you can...

I can spend all night in the pub and not spend a penny, no need to run, they can't make you by a drink, entertainment is free as you watch people deteriorate

 

[planet10]

The are/brain gets really good at filling in missing information. Because of this it is possible for someone to not be aware of the differences because the brain is filling in the missing pieces. I look to the day when the state of the brain can be directly measured (we are closing in on that) and when we can determine when the brain is doing less work, is more relaxed with one DUT over another bypassing the translation from what someone thinks they are hearing.

In a double blind (ie maybe so blind that people are not aware of weighing in on 2 DUT), test where people can just listen and not have their attention twisted by having to try to pick 1 of 2.

dave

 

[TonyTecson]

I can spend all night in the pub and not spend a penny, no need to run, they can't make you by a drink, entertainment is free as you watch people deteriorate

oh, that was a figure of speech, "run away as fast as you can" someone who used to post here said that long long long time ago..... i am sure you were not yet here then....

 

[TonyTecson]

The are/brain gets really good at filling in missing information. Because of this it is possible for someone to not be aware of the differences because the brain is filling in the missing pieces. I look to the day when the state of the brain can be directly measured (we are closing in on that) and when we can determine when the brain is doing less work, is more relaxed with one DUT over another bypassing the translation from what someone thinks they are hearing.

In a double blind (ie maybe so blind that people are not aware of weighing in on 2 DUT), test where people can just listen and not have their attention twisted by having to try to pick 1 of 2.

dave

yes, different people have different mindsets, and different biases based on experience, education and social status...some have bigger wallests than others....no one shoe size to fit all..

 

[spaceistheplace]

If a huge majority of people from all over the planet say they hear something the same way as the others.... That should be good enough.


-Richard

Collective behaviour | psychology | Britannica.com

 

[TonyTecson]

Whenever controversial audio effects (resp. the audibility of those effects) are discussed then sooner or later the demand to provide evidence occurrs, mainly as demand to do some sort of "blind test" .

Let´s assume that level matching is given, what else (wrt test conditions) is needed so that you would consider the evidence as sufficient although you were previously convinced that no difference can be heard?

the problem here as i see it is that there are millions of permutations on so many variables..

and then listening to music? who can have a magnetic playback in their brains to be able to remember all the minute details when listening to music? the elephant can have photographic memories as some humans do, but earsographic memories? sorry i just coined a new word...

why not just enjoy the music rather than finding reinforcements to your beliefs?

 

[mmerrill99]

The are/brain gets really good at filling in missing information. Because of this it is possible for someone to not be aware of the differences because the brain is filling in the missing pieces. I look to the day when the state of the brain can be directly measured (we are closing in on that) and when we can determine when the brain is doing less work, is more relaxed with one DUT over another bypassing the translation from what someone thinks they are hearing.

In a double blind (ie maybe so blind that people are not aware of weighing in on 2 DUT), test where people can just listen and not have their attention twisted by having to try to pick 1 of 2.

dave

Auditory perception's job is constantly doing this "filling in" or deciding on the best fit of the auditory nerve signals to the stored auditory models. In other words auditory signals mostly fall into a category is called 'poverty of the stimulus' i.e there's not enough information in the signals to solve the problem of creating an ever changing auditory scene - in mathematics, it's called an ill-posed problem

 

[spaceistheplace]

I can spend all night in the pub and not spend a penny, no need to run, they can't make you by a drink, entertainment is free as you watch people deteriorate

Not always the case in America. Some places you wait in long lines and pay just to walk in.

Jussayin’

 

[spaceistheplace]

Sometimes I wonder if diyaudio is largely the product of collective hysteria.

In which case we are mostly rather naive and entirely unable to discern objective reality, but also unable to have much awareness of these limitations.

 

[Evenharmonics]

temp holding for measure thread

Nice piece of staire that.

If you meant satire, no, those are not satire. They are accurate to real life events. That is unless you can debunk any one of the 10 with proof.

 

[Evenharmonics]

In a double blind (ie maybe so blind that people are not aware of weighing in on 2 DUT), test where people can just listen and not have their attention twisted by having to try to pick 1 of 2.

You must have no experience in audio DBT to make such statement.

 

[planet10]

That statement definitely helps to define your biases.

dave

 

[Evenharmonics]

That statement definitely helps to define your biases.

What is that statement? Please use quote to point out. Thank you.

 

[planet10]

Auditory perception's job is constantly doing this "filling in" or deciding on the best fit of the auditory nerve signals to the stored auditory models. In other words auditory signals mostly fall into a category is called 'poverty of the stimulus' i.e there's not enough information in the signals to solve the problem of creating an ever changing auditory scene - in mathematics, it's called an ill-posed problem

It is why i figure the DUT that requires less fill-in is likely the better.

dave