This is a cynical and narrow view.
Advertising works. Internet advertising is a large improvement over traditional means due to increased resolution and accuracy.
Plenty of data exists for those who look for it. Google and Amazon’s revenues, or Coca Cola’s trajectory over the last century or some of the political issues in the US during the last election should make that clear.
It’s quantifiable and factual, without question. Denying it is akin to some of the less informed QM discussion going on lately here.
How well it works is another question and depends upon a tremendous amount of factors that can’t really be summarized neatly.
Also, saying that because it’s functional means all marketing is good, or ethical, or wise or that all marketing budgets or targets are sensible is hopscotch logic. It doesn’t. These are valid criticisms.
But, for example, imho in 2018 taking out a print ad in stereophile or its kin is like flushing money down the drain. So, that would be an example of bloated, misdirected advertising budgets. Traditional business owners haven’t moved at the same pace as traditional technology.
With the Internet, you can observe in real-time the transition from ad-click to purchase, tracking individual customers and target them with a resolution previously unimaginable using traditional means (55-65 year old single men with disposable assets over 250k who have reviewed articles on Boulder, Devialet or what-have-you and live within 25 miles of a registered dealer, for example).
Also, what some don’t seem to realize is high visibility and posting for example on this forum (think designers like Geddes, JC and other commercial producers) is also a form of advertising. Actually the amount of traffic they receive freely (and prioritized, because it’s not overtly commercial, just “visibility”) is kind of staggering. So, if you want cheap internet advertising, mosey into diyaudio using your real name and start an argument.
Of course, engineers love taking jabs at the marketing department, but I think in many industries (not defense or mil contractors or other “non-public” sales- in these areas lobbying is the advertising mechanism) you wouldn’t have jobs without them.
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The very existence of all industry relies on proving to others that it’s useful, or more useful than the offerings of their competitors. That’s using obvious information and masquerading it as viable criticism. If you’d like to make a point, use data culled from peer reviewed journals as you might reference on other subjects. It’s only fair.
The “if only engineers ruled the world everything would go swimmingly” smells of the same bias you find so distasteful in others.
Imho if that became true we’d be living like the Morlock in Time Machine. Come to think about it the marketers vs engineers thing strikes me as quite similar to the Eloi and the Morlock.
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I was more or less following up to now....now I'm confused, which is which in your opinion?
I didn't actually say that advertising doesn't work (for marketing) even though this is what I believe; I merely said that it is necessary for others to believe that it works. Maybe I am guilty of projection: I assume that others ignore advertising (or laugh at it) to the same extent as I do.
One of the strongest effects of advertising I remember is that adverts for a car I was considering buying nearly stopped me buying it; it was ugly but reliable, but the adverts mainly majored on how nice it looked! Eventually I decided to ignore the ads and buy it anyway.
Posting on this forum can sometimes be a form of anti-advertising, as in far too many cases those commercially involved with audio merely exhibit their ignorance of electronics. Until I arrived here a few years ago I would not have thought this possible; I naively assumed that most people were at least as good at their jobs as my own colleagues were.
One of the strongest effects of advertising I remember is that adverts for a car I was considering buying nearly stopped me buying it; it was ugly but reliable, but the adverts mainly majored on how nice it looked! Eventually I decided to ignore the ads and buy it anyway.
Posting on this forum can sometimes be a form of anti-advertising, as in far too many cases those commercially involved with audio merely exhibit their ignorance of electronics. Until I arrived here a few years ago I would not have thought this possible; I naively assumed that most people were at least as good at their jobs as my own colleagues were.
I never said that. However, if engineers ruled the world then saucepans would not have handles which weigh nearly as much as the pan itself thus making it tip over when almost empty unless on a completely flat surface. Teapots would not dribble. Packaging would not have to be almost totally destroyed in order to access the goods inside.spaceisthe place said:
I appreciate your resilience and don’t doubt that you are largely impervious to questionable marketing practices.
However, thinking that marketing was designed with you as the target is a very amusing idea. You represent the lowest yield target / spend.
If you don’t jive with marketing materials, like the car, it’s likely because the product was not marketed with you in mind, but rather to people with a completely different set of drives, you just happened to want it.
In other words you are the 1/f noise of marketing graphs.
They would like to remove you to get a clearer picture of what’s going on.
If you could engineer a method of removing yourself and others like you, you could likely purchase a Greek island with your profits.
However, thinking that marketing was designed with you as the target is a very amusing idea. You represent the lowest yield target / spend.
If you don’t jive with marketing materials, like the car, it’s likely because the product was not marketed with you in mind, but rather to people with a completely different set of drives, you just happened to want it.
In other words you are the 1/f noise of marketing graphs.
They would like to remove you to get a clearer picture of what’s going on.
If you could engineer a method of removing yourself and others like you, you could likely purchase a Greek island with your profits.
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As long as you cast enough doubt against ones detractors for the average reader, especially using sufficiently specialized language that obscures clarity for those not trained in the field, one doesn’t need to be objectively correct.
It’s unfortunate, but I think you see this enough to realize the truth in it.
Again, not suggesting it’s “right”, but suggesting it’s effective and from a purely fiscal standpoint certainly justified.
If Parasound thought JC’s blowtorch thread was damaging sales rather than increasing them, they’d have snuffed that out a while ago.
Not to suggest JC has the motives expressed above or is not a talented designer with something to offer. Simply using it as an example.
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I don't agree... Where is the proven causal connection between coca cola's advertising bugdet and net revenues? Plenty of people advertise on google, but I don't think there is any good, reliable, causal evidence. Advertisers hope there is.... And in some cases dare not stop, just in case. That's fine but it proves nothing.
Influence on elections is a differnt story - that's not advertising in the same sense, as the target doesn't have to pay for anything. But it also would violate the site rules to go any further....
Anyway - I doubt we will agree, that's my 2p worth though!
No you see this is how google monetizes, by providing pay per click, which can then be tracked to an e-commerce sale.
You pay for an action, your total cost is how many of these actionable events results in a transaction.
Direct, indisputable causal relationship exists. Moreso than any traditional advertising vehicle. It’s not an issue of opinion.
Pay-per-click - Wikipedia
You pay for an action, your total cost is how many of these actionable events results in a transaction.
Direct, indisputable causal relationship exists. Moreso than any traditional advertising vehicle. It’s not an issue of opinion.
Pay-per-click - Wikipedia
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I provided information above. As you stated above regarding principles in audio, this is a scenario of not having the basics covered.
We don’t have to agree, but I suggest you take the time to review further information on the subject. You might surprise yourself.
Its unbecoming to make general conjectures without supporting data that the efforts of a huge population of people, many of whom have scientific backgrounds with advanced degrees, is adrift in some kind of alternate reality devoid of the same kind of critical thinking skills hard scientists and engineers hold so dear.
Especially so by scientists and engineers who expect the same courtesy when it’s within their sphere of expertise.
“Advertising is an audio or visual form of marketing communication that employs an openly sponsored, non-personal message to promote or sell a product, service or idea.”
Advertising’s goal is to benefit the advertiser. It can be monetarily beneficial to the advertiser and have no connection to a good or service consumed by the advertising target.
Oh, Advertising works, big time.
That´s why it moves billions of $$$ (if not trillions).
I have proven it myself, for my own benefit.
I make custom Guitar amplifiers for Rock Musicians.
I have seen dozens or even a hundred brands and "boutique makers" appear, have "15 minutes fame" and disappear in the darkness.
Many making very good products, mind you.
I have been steadily making and selling them since 1969, standing through 9 (nine) Economic Crisis (think USA 2008 and worse) , sometimes faster, sometimes slower, but never stopping.
Fighting cheap Dollar , cheap Imports, open door no tariff Customs, etc.
So much so that AES invited me to give a conference on "How to stand the cutthroat Asian Competition while still Manufacturing in Argentina" .
Oh, they chose a more polite name for it, to avoid irratating powerful Importers, so it was called "Challenges of Hardware Manufacturing in Argentina" but everybody knew what it was about ... specially those who already knew me
But *always* advertising.
We are currently in the middle of a Crisis/Depression, everybody is depressed, practically stopping manufacturing, developing new products, or firing personnel, NOT ADVERTISING "because it´s a waste of time, nobody sells anything".
I participated in last December with a stand in our annual "NAMM equivalent" Musical Industry Fair, again in April in the Buenos Aires AES Convention showing new products,
currently launching 2 new high end Heavy Metal models for Guitar and Bass,
publishing Ads in Guitar magazines, plus stretching Facebook as much as possible without being banned: got 29000 likes in 4 months (currently surpassed 30000) .
Am I selling now? .... very little, nobody has a cent and all overdrafted their Credit Cards.
Will I sell like a pig in 6 Months, 1 year or two? .... YOU BET.
So, to the question: does Advertising work? .... the answer is a resounding YES!!!!
That said, you have to do it the right way; it took me Years and lots of wasted or at least poorly used $$$$ to find what works and what does not, what to say, how to mintain credibility (VERY important or it backfires) , which Months of the year are productive and which are dead no matter what, biggest bang for the buck, etc.
I said IT WORKS, never said it´s "easy".
Or FORGET all I wrote above and just think:
" Does it seem that Coca Cola NEEDS advertising?"
By sheer Logic and plain observation: NO.
"Do they anyway spend hundreds of Millions in Advertising?"
See for yourself.
"Are they fools?" .... very much doubt so.
Question answered
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As someone who's business it is to sit thru sales and marketing meetings (1000s of them), it's sure that major corporations believe that online ads work. Why do they believe that, is it just wishful thinking? To some extent it is just trendy, but the analytics are so powerful now that precisely tracking results is easy. It's "granular" as they like to say these days.
Online ads have tools to track what's going on so that you can immediately tell the effect of changing a single word, color or image. The analytics are amazing. And conversion rates per dollar can be quite high. It's good value for money.
Online ads have tools to track what's going on so that you can immediately tell the effect of changing a single word, color or image. The analytics are amazing. And conversion rates per dollar can be quite high. It's good value for money.
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