Go back and read what I said already. Read the work that D.Self did -- it increased his PA THD. Which is then what you will hear.
THx-RNMarsh
Last edited:
I'll do you one better, click the first link in my sig. I still have some boards even though I just sent out a lot. Bringing it to the masses... of an extremely niche hobby.
Well, custom speakers attached to a PC, yes.
The monster 7000 power conditioner was $1300 USD MSRP. Don't think I've hit that, but sure makes one heck of a good set of powered PC speakers. Probably ones with a respectable PSU that doesn't need isolation transformer shenanigans.
Richard, you're making broad claims without good data, off course you're getting push back. Likewise telling me to reread your scrambled notes is a fool's errand, as it's a mess. You can't have it both ways.
The question isn't whether it makes a 'lick of different', but if it makes a lick that starts and ends well. Not all power conditioning that posts good numbers actually sounds good with audio playback.
If you go to an audio show you can walk into rooms all day that need power conditioning. Then you walk into one with good power conditioning and it sounds much less fatiguing. Then you walk into one with bad power conditioning and you're like "wtf, how can you screw it up even more than the horrible power from the wall."
I've been paying a lot of attention to power conditioning for around a decade. That includes building and modifying power conditioners. I've even sent one on a tour. Numerous times I've brought them to live shows. Not everything on paper (graph) translates like you think it should.
At this point just move the needle, just show an effect. I don't care whether its salutary or noxious.
Max -- as I just wrote right above this: anything that doesn't need a bunch of isolation transformers would be a benefit. Or better put, one that doesn't change at all with or without histrionic levels of power conditioning for home use.
During a live show the soundguy was using considerably less compression for guitars that were plugged into a power conditioner I brought. I don't have a picture. But that's one form of needle (LED bar needle).
I have enough anecdotes about people who were skeptics, oblivious (blind), and such that at this point trying to "prove" they do anything is a pathetic laughable notion. I just like you guys, so I don't mind weighing in a little when I already know.
I have enough anecdotes about people who were skeptics, oblivious (blind), and such that at this point trying to "prove" they do anything is a pathetic laughable notion. I just like you guys, so I don't mind weighing in a little when I already know.
I had a roommate that knew when my power conditioner was gone from the stereo, just by listening. He didn't know it had left (been borrowed), and it was not in a location he could see it (not did he know what it was if he did see it pulled out). He didn't say it was gone, but he said the stereo didn't sound good, and requested we get it back when I told him.
Love those squirrely "ghost spikes" in the analyzer pictures.
I don't think Richard was going for the dual bobbin approach. You don't necessarily have to reduce the isolation capacitance to absurd levels (that can be taken care of at higher frequencies with CMCs and ferrites), you just have to construct the transformer so that it's well balanced and manage the shield wires properly.
OF course to take full advantage of it your load must also be reasonably well balanced.
I don't think Richard was going for the dual bobbin approach. You don't necessarily have to reduce the isolation capacitance to absurd levels (that can be taken care of at higher frequencies with CMCs and ferrites), you just have to construct the transformer so that it's well balanced and manage the shield wires properly.
OF course to take full advantage of it your load must also be reasonably well balanced.
To measure AC noise that is conducted here is a typical setup. The inductors and caps form a Line impedance stabilization network and the output feeds a wideband amp and then a spectrum analyzer. You can build or purchase these.
A company called com power can sell you a whole kit to do this. They used to have a three day course on EMI it was really quite good.
A company called com power can sell you a whole kit to do this. They used to have a three day course on EMI it was really quite good.
I know, I just tired of all the flowery language. Like Chris though, I'd just take a measurement that shows any effect at the speaker terminals! We don't even need to get into the ugliness or audibility.
Last edited:
You know by now these are just stories, how carefully did you characterize the performance of your amp for PS issues, EMI, etc. before this? No controls and certainly not proof that an amplifier that does not benefit from one can not be designed.
Last edited:
Isn't the whole point of valid tests and measurements that time and money isn't wasted? Unless you a trying to sell something of course
You've missed the point Destroyer: "the PSU isn't good enough" adage is more a fundamental question of first establishing a need. Power conditioning, by and large is a bandaid, especially in home electronics. Versus, way medical or industrial applications where the demands and regulatory constraints are very different.
Best to engineer the right solution at the right place than throw stuff and hope for the best. And to engineer requires knowing what the heck is actually going on.
Best to engineer the right solution at the right place than throw stuff and hope for the best. And to engineer requires knowing what the heck is actually going on.
If you want to call PSRR a snobbery, that's your call. It won't help you with the engineering crowd, though. I'm assuming you care, which is not obvious.
Because you raised this, I don't mind people glossing about the superior sound of whatever gimmick device, everybody is entitled to an opinion, in particular when on their own time and dime. What drives me nuts are the obnoxious attempts to support the subjective perceptions with some parallel universe physics, or bogus half baked measurements, or name dropping, or any other ways to obscure a hidden agenda, usually (but not always) sales related.
While I could describe them, that is totally irrelevent because they were not defective, all LPSs. The conditioner was noticed in a blind condition. The world is full of gear with bad to modest power supplies for the most part, so power conditioners have a place. Besides, do you really think it is good business to go around saying "replace all your gear so I can not sell you a power conditioner"? Good luck. People like all sorts of geaf for reasons unrelated to simple measurements.
For consumers, if it helps, it helps.
The thing that was noticed the most in my anecdote was fatigue level. This has been consistent with basically every stereo I have ever heard without power conditioning, they are more fatiguing and a power conditioner is the fastest cure. And I mean for stereos and rooms of all kinds.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.