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Old 2nd November 2017, 03:00 PM   #51
Johnny2Bad is offline Johnny2Bad  Canada
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Originally Posted by gpauk View Post
As I always say when my wife frowns at my sartorial style, wait long enough and everything comes back into fashion.....

Curiously, a lot - perhaps the majority? - of people buying vinyl are not into "hi-fi" - have cheap turntables, just like the tactile nature of it all, the whole experience of the cover, turning it over, the surface noise....
What surface noise? The most surface noise I hear these days comes from audio plugins in Digital Audio Workstations (DAW).

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Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
IIRC, those CD-4 discs were supposedly of a higher strength vinyl to withstand tracking force and maintain the integrity of the ultra-sonic carriers. (circa 30Khz?)
180 gm vinyl and half speed mastering were developed for the various LP 4-channel formats. Typically the rear channels were encoded at 30~45 KHz. Phono cartridges of a minimal reasonable HiFi quality can typically read to 50 KHz without much trouble.

Record wear is mostly a result of mistracking, which causes violent, uncontrolled oscillations in the groove walls by the stylus. Broadly speaking you should use the recommended tracking force but biased toward the high side to avoid mistracking. Most people tend to set the tracking force at the lighter end of the recommended range, in the "common sense" belief that it wears records less. The opposite is true.

As for record quality, it's variable and always has been. The plant and label control the quality, sometimes the original master tapes are not available, and modern recording is all done on DAWs before mastering for vinyl.

The more popular the record, the more likely the stampers are worn, for example. Or they may use "too much" recycled vinyl, which never softens like virgin vinyl does. And so on. You need to seek out quality pressings; they don't appear as if by magic and there are plenty of financial incentives to cut costs and resulting quality.

I did enjoy buying LPs in Canada back in the day, because the plants were here and the volume was never that high, so the stampers were usually low-count units. In some countries you would get record companies trying to get 400,000 pressings from a stamper before retiring it.
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Last edited by Johnny2Bad; 2nd November 2017 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 2nd November 2017, 03:13 PM   #52
radiosmuck is offline radiosmuck  Canada
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Originally Posted by billshurv View Post
Means more bargains for those of us who just want the music.
From reading your posts, you mostly enjoy tinkering, very little mention of music.
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Old 2nd November 2017, 03:29 PM   #53
scott wurcer is offline scott wurcer  United States
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Originally Posted by radiosmuck View Post
From reading your posts, you mostly enjoy tinkering, very little mention of music.
You must have missed something?
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Old 2nd November 2017, 03:36 PM   #54
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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quite. Currently enjoying Ivanov symphonies. The back story on trying to get the recordings out of the Latvian radio archives makes it more enjoyable.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 07:36 AM   #55
Hiten is offline Hiten  India
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
What is the source of the terrible sonic balance in many Indian CD's? I do have a few jugalbandi that are quite nice.
Not sure but I guess in jugalbandi both artists or instruments should get equal weightage. In solo performance for example like vocal; The tampura and tabla accompanying gets less weightage. If sonic balance by that is what you mean.

Also may be at time when Audio CDs came about it took little time to professionaly record/master cds. The recording method/equipments must have been varying in quality too. So problems at the source can not be ruled out.

As I only pursue vinyls of indian classical master's performances given in their prime, I have little knowledge of Digital recordings and lables. One thing I am sure is in earlier days the source was given to CD makers in England. Those 'Made in England' CDs (Mostly Indian Film Music) were known for quality. Classical titles however were very few.

By the way seeking good recorded Audio CDs should be worth the effort too.. As I am seeing Classical Audio CDs are also not easily available. Recently iconic Mumbai Music store was closed due to lack of sales.

Rhythm House

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Old 3rd November 2017, 03:31 PM   #56
scott wurcer is offline scott wurcer  United States
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Originally Posted by Hiten View Post
Not sure but I guess in jugalbandi both artists or instruments should get equal weightage. In solo performance for example like vocal; The tampura and tabla accompanying gets less weightage. If sonic balance by that is what you mean.
I was thinking more of the quality of many CD's of Indian film music I have heard. The vocals seem poorly mixed almost like there is some formula for the final sound that everyone expects.

I've been to Mumbai and Lonavala a very eye opening trip.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 04:13 PM   #57
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
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I downloaded the latest Punch Brothers album (The Phosphorescent Blues) on 2496 flac the other night after commenting about the sound quality, and am delighted to report that all of the deficits I hear in the vinyl version of that album are completely PRESENT (!!) in the 2496 high res digital version of the album.

I took it a step further and listened through a pair of OPPO-3 planar headphones driven by my HiFiMan HM-901, not tooting my horn here, but while not the top end of personal playback technology it is rather good. What I heard was one of the worst examples of high quality studio multi-track recording I have ever heard.

Subjective description follows: Clean, quiet, and completely free of extraneous pops or clicks, hiss, etc., but no sense of real music being performed in real space. It sounds all like direct feed from the instruments, and the vocals are dry as if recorded in an extremely dead room. There is no ambience at all in this recording. There is a bass instrument present that I cannot identify and it doesn't sound good either, it just adds some rather muddy sounding bottom end to underpin the rest of the performance. It's actually not that pleasant to listen to at times.

It has some good material, but sounds like no revolution and little evolution has occurred since their previous album.

I have another recording by Fleet Foxes on this label and a previous album by them as well, and while I cannot do a direct comparison based on the vinyl I would make the some observations about unnatural sound quality.

I had to be honest been worrying that my strain gauge set up was somehow turning a "great" recording into an unnatural and mechanical rendition of the original intent, but in fact it appears it presented it quite accurately and not much more kindly than the flac file.
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Old 3rd November 2017, 05:23 PM   #58
Cal Weldon is offline Cal Weldon  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
1.5G with a "standard" elliptical stylus which most of us would have in our history converts to in PSI?
If my stubby fingers hit the right buttons then a 4 x 7 elliptical exerts approx. 1,900 PSI.

EDIT: Wait, Let me check that again. I might have stubbed my fingers.

EDIT2: Changed my mind. I believe it's approx. 120 PSI
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Old 3rd November 2017, 05:26 PM   #59
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Kevin - I've only listened on YouTube, but agree that the album is very clean and very dry. Any tiny reverb seems to be added. Nice tonal balance and good playing, tho.
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Old 4th November 2017, 04:09 AM   #60
Hiten is offline Hiten  India
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
I was thinking more of the quality of many CD's of Indian film music I have heard. The vocals seem poorly mixed almost like there is some formula for the final sound that everyone expects.
That is a very good observation. But honestly I don't know. My guess would be lack of skill, lack of proper equipments or budget of production houses.
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