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Complete newbie question regarding tube sound
Complete newbie question regarding tube sound
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Old 18th July 2017, 08:21 PM   #121
Wavebourn is online now Wavebourn  United States
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Complete newbie question regarding tube sound
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan Potgieter View Post
Perhaps a small illustration of a small 'blind' test to prove something often overlooked?

Four friends and myself did such a test - particularls later. During a great many 'events', one person was correct as many as 6 out of 6 times consecutively, on two occasions. 5 out of 5 consecutively occurred a number of times. In the end some 150 tests were done. (How long did all this take?!)

Well, it was not an audio test, it was the tossing of a simple coin. As expected, the end result was within >74 - <76.

Point: If those intervals of 5 or 6 correct out of 5-6 were to have occurred right at the beginning and the experiment terminated after such, what could be more positive proof of dead certainty? Yet the truth was that the correct result was 50-50.

The moral is obvious. A single test or even several cannot render a result of any statistical value, only chance. Even after 150 events our results were not exactly 75-75. Statistics as I recall, and depending rather much on the nature of a test, is frowned on if not at least 10 tests are done, preferably quite more.
South Africa may be not the best place for such tests.

One friend once took us to horse racing. There was a flea market nearby, so we went there, and I paid 159 Rands for a couple of speakers for a used car that I bought recently for 10.5 thousand Rands.
There I could guess 4 horses who come first, and write down the order in the form. Another option was, just to guess 3 first horses, no order. When going there, I was thinking of numbers. I am not a gambler, so I did not care, but selected 4 numbers, I do not know why.
I put 3 numbers and won exactly 159 Rands. But if I put all 4 in the order that I "got them in my head", I would get 10.5 thousand Rands.
So, your tests don't count; wrong place!
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Old 18th July 2017, 08:43 PM   #122
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaputt
@DF96 Come on Dave, just post a schematic of an amplifier you use at home and this is done
As far as I am aware this thread is not about my amplifier. I have made no claims about my amplifier, my hearing, my taste in music etc. Have I missed something?
 
Old 18th July 2017, 09:44 PM   #123
shakeshuck is offline shakeshuck  United Kingdom
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Quote:
So does everyone.
Quote:
I have an anecdote.
I am not sure of the etiquette on this forum yet. Posting the story I did on a certain other forum without empirical proof, logs, written testimony, etc. and without calling it an anecdote would result in being ripped a new one.

Quote:
What is conditioning cable?
By conditioning cable I mean one that tries - by voodoo or any scientific method - to reduce mains supply noise.

Last edited by shakeshuck; 18th July 2017 at 09:47 PM.
 
Old 18th July 2017, 09:56 PM   #124
shakeshuck is offline shakeshuck  United Kingdom
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Going back to my original question, I found something on Wikipedia (don't laugh!) that is relevant.
On the Beam Tetrode page, it says:
"Even-harmonic distortion is automatically cancelled in a push-pull design"

Is this true?
If it is, it means that even-order harmonics can not be responsible for the "thicker air" effect in a PP design.
 
Old 18th July 2017, 10:26 PM   #125
plasnu is offline plasnu  United States
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Actually, the difference between PP and SE is more than the difference between SS and Tube in my experience, but it's rare to find SE SS design, except a few offered by Nelson Pass.
 
Old 19th July 2017, 01:25 AM   #126
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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push-pull design can add or remove 2nd harmonics. It cancels up to a certain point even harmonics.
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Old 19th July 2017, 05:27 AM   #127
50AE is online now 50AE  Bulgaria
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Complete newbie question regarding tube sound
Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
My crystal ball is away for repair at the moment so I can't look inside your head and determine what you don't know about PSU design.
Perhaps I could help you manage without it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
No. Textbooks should always be read critically, aiming for understanding rather than mere reproduction. However, most textbooks are correct in most of what they say. Textbooks cannot, of course, correct all possible misunderstandings;

Experiments give raw data. To convert that data into useful information you need to apply correct theory. Get that wrong and you will deduce a false idea from the raw data. People 'measure' all sorts of things and 'prove' all sorts of ideas.
I agree with you, although sometimes I use raw data together with the textbook theory to make sure that it is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
Would you like to share some of your theoretical analysis in the audio domain?
I'm mostly fond of empirical analysis, sometimes both. The theory always comes to me in handy in tube amplifiers when designing amplifying stages, gain and types of noise, approximating the THD of the amplifying stages, output and power transformer design, magnetic core properties, passive power supply specifics such as ripple, Fres and quality factor, grounding schematic. End results matter to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenharmonics View Post
Why 24 hours? Why not 24 minutes or 24 seconds?

What kind of listening test setup did you use?
By my humble experience, 24 hours is a good minimum for a component to start showing its true sound quality.

This experience is based on different kinds of hi-fi audio systems, including the one I have at home. The later has a SE amplifier driving TL speakers and a computer based NOS DAC, the one at work is made from an SS hybrid amplifier driving MTM TL speakers, Arcam Delta TDA1541 CD player.

Last edited by 50AE; 19th July 2017 at 05:34 AM.
 
Old 19th July 2017, 08:46 AM   #128
jazbo8 is offline jazbo8
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Complete newbie question regarding tube sound
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakeshuck View Post
On the Beam Tetrode page, it says:
"Even-harmonic distortion is automatically cancelled in a push-pull design"

Is this true?
Yes.

Quote:
If it is, it means that even-order harmonics can not be responsible for the "thicker air" effect in a PP design.
No one knows what you mean by "thicker air".

Perhaps you should read some books and articles and come back with some legitimate questions...

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