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Old 29th July 2017, 10:44 PM   #81
w5jag is offline w5jag  United States
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Location: Arkansas
I came away thinking that it was an excellent design. Maybe that is your safest path to success, especially since you already paid for it!
Indeed, no doubt it's the safest ( and smartest ) path, and it's not getting any younger, either; there is a revised version out now. It would be impossible for me to build anything approaching the DZ level of complexity, except as a pre engineered kit. I have the parts for both versions of the original Sienna - the blank panel, remote pc control version, and the full front panel kit, and all the filters that are best installed at the initial build out.

It has an interesting architecture - best that I recall it uses 70 MHz as the first IF, then 9, then 455, and both of those LO's can be moved around for IF shift and variable bandwidth. The TX strip uses 10.7 MHz, I think, so not much, if anything, in common with the RX strip.

I swung by the office and found I do have one of Rohde's books: Communications Receivers, Principles and Design (first edition) by Ulrich Rohde and T.T.N. Bucher.

The site has obviously scanned my computer and figured out I'm in the wading pool. I get ads for stuff like $25 dollar oscilloscope kits

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Old 30th July 2017, 01:24 AM   #82
Tubelab_com is offline Tubelab_com  United States
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I get ads for stuff like $25 dollar oscilloscope kits
I bought one of those kits, only it was cheaper, like $19, but it was a over year ago. It, like your DZ, still sits unbuilt. I will get to it some day. It will make a cute little music synthesizer module.

I do have one of Rohde's books:
I met him about 10 years ago. We needed a really good VCO design for a design concept, and if it made it to production, would have been a nice lucrative contract for the vendor. Most of our radios have a 10 year product lifecycle. Rohde had a VCO company at the time, maybe he still does, I don't know. He lives in Germany most of the time, but it turns out that he has the entire top floor of a high end condo on Marco Island Florida and I had just returned from a vacation there. I remember walking past the condo on one of my long beach walks. We wound up using somebody else's VCOs due to size constraints that Rohde couldn't meet with his push pull design.

(DZ) has an interesting architecture - best that I recall it uses 70 MHz as the first IF, then 9, then 455, and both of those LO's can be moved around for IF shift and variable bandwidth.
The DZ was one of the first good up conversion designs. The first filter is at 70.455 MHz and a fixed 4 KHz bandwidth. That limits the bandwidth into the second and third mixers. At least on the schematics I have (2010) the 2nd and 3rd LO's are fixed at 61.455 and 9.455 MHz. The TX appears to be a single conversion system with the IF at 4.915 MHz. With the parts shortage as it was back then the frequencies could have changed a few times to suit what was available.

My plan back then was to up convert to 45 MHz. then convert to 8.2 MHz, 9 Mhz or 10.7 MHz for demodulation, depending on mode, to suit available filters. I had purchased two sets of 200 Hz CW filters at 8.2 because they were common and relatively cheap. My TX would just reverse the path through the same filters. VHF and UHF used the existing setup with another conversion from a higher IF (315 MHz or 1260 MHz) to 45 MHz. I started building some of the basic blocks, and I have recently found most of that old work.....now if I could only remember what I was thinking at the time.....

Another good radio of the day worthy of study is the Elecraft K3. It is not known for having a great TX, but it's RX was great for 2009. It used a PLL / DDS combination for a very clean LO. It also used a DSP for demod and modulation of a 15 KHz IF for both TX and RX.
Tubelab, it's 5 year mission. To explore strange new tubes, to seek out new circuits and topologies, to boldly go where no tube has gone before......
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Old 30th July 2017, 01:33 AM   #83
PRR is offline PRR  United States
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> The site has obviously scanned my computer

Just to put blame where it belongs....

DIYA does not scan your computer. DIYA is supported by ads from external servers. When those servers get the call for an ad, they look at the page which called the ad ("What is on that page?") as well as your ad-page-history on other sites using those same ad servers, and picks an appropriate category of ads. (Google is the expert at putting such clues together, but all the ad-houses do similar things.)
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Old 30th July 2017, 05:00 AM   #84
w5jag is offline w5jag  United States
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At least on the schematics I have (2010) the 2nd and 3rd LO's are fixed at 61.455 and 9.455 MHz. The TX appears to be a single conversion system with the IF at 4.915 MHz.
Not sure where I came up with 10.7 for the TX IF; the block diagram I have shows the same frequencies as your schematics. The promotional literature says full passband tuning at both 9 MHz and 455 KHz; the operating manual says:

"IF Shift [IS]: As with position 1, select either IF by pushing the Adjust
knob. Turn the knob to slide the selected filter right or left.
The overlap between the two trapezoids is an approximate graphical
representation of the resulting bandwidth. Position 2 allows the shift
to be set in 50 Hz increments per step of the Adjust knob. Position 3
is 100 Hz per step. Position 4 is 250 Hz per step."

The TX IF can also be shifted from the setup menus. And there is this:

"Enhanced SSB: Off, On. If enabled, the transmitter’s wide bandwidth filter is used in SSB mode. Receiver bandwidth is unaffected and must be selected manually with the filter controls."

Enhanced SSB is 6KHz.

I would think the DZ is about the most complicated kit ever marketed to Hams. I was going to upload the catalog, but the pdf files is too big, and I don't have software here at the house to pull the Sienna pages, and shrink the size.

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Old 30th July 2017, 07:12 AM   #85
gerhard is online now gerhard  Germany
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> A little.
> Maybe.
> No, not really.

Dangerous answer.
See for yourself: < Dirty Harry (10/10) Movie CLIP - Do l Feel Lucky? (1971) HD - YouTube >

Originally Posted by Tubelab_com View Post
A ring mixer is the hot ticket, but they don't have to be made with diodes. Fet mixers have become the first choice recently. For HF a fet mixer can be made with analog switch IC's.
Since cost at Chinese levels is an argument, one would probably choose the SRA1H
from the junk box.

I have made mixers from Pulse CX2147 transformers and HP/Avago diodes, or
whatever they are called at the moment. IO pins are on 100 mil centers, so they
can be easily deployed on vector board or such. 7 dBm only but with known diodes,
which is important for my purposes.

There are other interesting transformers from Pulse and MAcom, all from Digikey
and/or Mouser. Quite cheap. CX2147, cx2049, cx2074nl, cx2156, maba009594,
mabact0059, mabaes0060, mabaes0061, cx2032nl e.a.

I have developed quite a library of stamp sized functions like this,
100 MHz VCXO locked to 10 MHz ref frequency.
4046 (in SO16) and LVDS input buffer were not yet needed in this case.
There are also inv /non-inv OP27, regulators, PIN attenuator macros and such.
Divide and conquer.

Also the board process is quite fast with presensitized material, less than
90 min. from drawing in computer to drilled board.
<My version of the G = 1000 low noise measurement amp (for Ikoflexer). >

The Rohde/Bucher book contains everything that's needed.
Attached Images
File Type: png crystek_synced_vcxo.png (600.1 KB, 66 views)
File Type: png mix.png (34.4 KB, 65 views)
"That's right!" shouted Vroomfondel, "we demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" "We don't demand solid facts! What we demand is a total absence of solid facts. I demand that I may or may not be Vroomfondel!"

Last edited by gerhard; 30th July 2017 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 16th August 2017, 03:19 PM   #86
w5jag is offline w5jag  United States
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Location: Arkansas
.... I have been thinking about slapping together a quickie FM tuner for football season ....
And done, with time to spare.

Prefab FM tuner module cut the time in half, probably. CA3089 FM receiver chip, LM1310 stereo decoder. AGC and AFC from the CA3089 applied to the tuner module.

Antenna will be something circularly polarized, probably a turnstile, on my roof tower.

The first variant used an MC1350 IF amplifier between the tuner and the chip. This worked well, but had a pretty big footprint on the board, and more gain than needed. It was not directly compatible with the AGC from the CA3089, adding some complication.

I removed it, moved the CA3089 closer to the tuner, and, of course, decided that provided inadequate gain, when the loss of the ceramic filters is about 12dB. So, I shoehorned in a 2N2222A, which looks to be about right. The first variant on that used transformer coupling to the second ceramic filter, but ultimately I just went with the ceramic filter as the load for the IF amp.

It's shown connected to the stereo decoder, but I also have the mono de emphasis network on the board that I can use. The decoder gave me a bit of trouble. I didn't have the right capacitors, so I had to parallel stuff to get close. At first, I couldn't get the onboard oscillator down to 19KHz, so I had to tweak the VCO values a bit. Once I had a good clean square wave at 19KHz, the PLL locked right up when it detected a pilot tone. The decoder is mostly the data sheet circuit; I returned the de emphasis caps to ground instead of the positive rail, because it was easier to fit them that way. It's wired for unity gain, which seems adequate to drive the small push pull amp, with just a low gain 12AU7 front end, built as part of the removing MOSFET's thread in the Tubelab sub forum.

The empty space across the top is to channelize the tuner - I am only interested in four or five stations - and hopefully an audio switching setup to switch the tuner and another aux input in and out, so it can be installed in a Tubelab amp.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20170805_093606.jpg (444.9 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20170815_220131.jpg (514.6 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20170815_220433.jpg (424.7 KB, 38 views)
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Old 18th October 2017, 02:58 PM   #87
w5jag is offline w5jag  United States
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Arkansas

No sign of my DDS yet, though. ...
I had given up on finding it, and then I found it. While rummaging through a bunch of cabinet boxes, and other enclosures in anticipation of a different project, I found it stuck in a plastic enclosure - probably I had put it in there testing for preliminary fit and layout with some other stuff.

I powered it up, and it came up at 10 MHz. At this point, I have no idea what I was thinking of when I selected that firmware. Maybe a DC CW transceiver for 30 meters, or maybe I was going to mix it somewhere else. Or maybe I just wanted to play with a DDS. The LCD display and encoder were also found with the DDS, so I'm good to go .... for something ......

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