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What is the Universe expanding into..
What is the Universe expanding into..
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View Poll Results: Do you think there was anything before the big bang?
I don't think there was anything before the Big Bang 8 8.60%
I think something existed before the Big Bang 34 36.56%
I don't think the big bang happened 15 16.13%
I think the universe is part of a mutiverse 43 46.24%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 22nd June 2014, 09:16 AM   #1
M Gregg is offline M Gregg  England
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Default What is the Universe expanding into..

Just for interest,

What is the Universe Expanding Into?

And

http://preposterousuniverse.com/writ...imer/dark.html

A poll has been set and it is multiple choice the poll is on going...please read the thread before voting..

Regards
M. Gregg

Last edited by M Gregg; 27th June 2015 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 10:29 AM   #2
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Europe
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Should be one for the physicists amongst us to get their teeth into.

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Old 22nd June 2014, 12:55 PM   #3
SY is offline SY  United States
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What is the Universe expanding into..
We get into that around our sophomore year.

The real takeaway for the lay-folk is that there are questions which can be expressed in grammatically correct English which make no physical sense. We see that a lot here where people want to talk about specific electrons.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 01:13 PM   #4
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Europe
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So, what is it?

Does space-time beyond the known universe compute to zero since time does not exist (if nothing's happening . . . does time exist?). What are the implications for mass-energy equivalence in the absence of time? I would assume beyond the known universe if would be nice and quiet - no thermal noise out there.

I expect SE to drop in any minute with an explanation

Last edited by Bonsai; 22nd June 2014 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 01:27 PM   #5
SY is offline SY  United States
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What is the Universe expanding into..
I was referring to the first link, not the second. The whole dark matter question is really complex (translation: requires more general relativity and high energy background than I have ).
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Old 22nd June 2014, 01:40 PM   #6
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Europe
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Well, you're ahead of me on the theory bit!

My simplistic understanding: unless time and energy are present, there is no universe as we know it. So, I have no doubt that the edge of the universe as we know it is where time and energy encroach.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 01:50 PM   #7
SY is offline SY  United States
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What is the Universe expanding into..
The whole point is that there is no such thing as "the edge of the universe." Grammatically fine, syntax fine, physically meaningless.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 02:21 PM   #8
SNR is offline SNR  Canada
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Throughout history very few have had the epiphany required to grasp, let alone or observe space time relationships.

The universe is not expanding, only our view of the universe is expanding. Einstein inadvertently makes this clear in his observations, which interestingly enough have no references.

I'm sorry but Hubble's conclusions are misinterpreted.
His experiments used locally earth based "2D" observations fail to utilize or understand Einstein's work.

You cannot measure the Earth's "speed" using Hubble's technique while sitting on it.

It's narcissistic behavior of some humans who subconsciously want to be the center of the universe.

Hubble's experiment performed on any planet will have the same observations.

The big bang theory let sciences progress while letting certain factions of society save-face. It's the Darwin or the egg theory.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 02:51 PM   #9
SY is offline SY  United States
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What is the Universe expanding into..
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR View Post

The universe is not expanding, only our view of the universe is expanding.
The data indicate otherwise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR View Post
You cannot measure the Earth's "speed" using Hubble's technique while sitting on it.
Grammatically correct, physically meaningless.
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Old 22nd June 2014, 03:15 PM   #10
Philosophil is offline Philosophil  Canada
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SY,

Wouldn't it be more correct to say "physically meaningless on the current model or theory"? After all, the notion of individual electrons might actually be meaningful on the older, planetary or billiard ball model, but not on the current model. Similarly, the notion of an edge to the universe might actually have a meaning in an Aristotelian or Ptolemaic model of the universe, but again not in the current one. Of course to the best of our knowledge we should take the current model as truthful to some extent, but that doesn't mean it must serve as the basis for the meaning of all terms or sentences, including a physicalist sense. Doesn't it make better sense to think of meaning as being context dependent and what might be meaningless in one context could be meaningful in another?

Phil
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