I was making up the math for building two monoblocks of bridged LM3886 and was getting out somewhere around 200,- EUR for everything and was wondering if it really is worth the trouble. Ok, it is maybe not a huge amount of money, but still some money to be burn. Of course, it is a great feeling to get to the end of the process and have something that you built, that is working as it should and so on, but in terms of best value for the money performance wise, how do you see our DIY activity ?
Regards, Stefan
Regards, Stefan
I was actually wondering about the "measurable" advantage. It is not inexpensive, for sure, and if you would count in your time it would get even worse ( I never do since it is a recreational activity for me ), but I was simply wondering if making a pair of monoblocks at around 2x80W for 200,- EUR is presenting a performance or price advantage. I will make them anyhow, or they will go up in smoke, but I was still wondering about the "cold" ( i.e. material ) part of this.
I don't know.... I think that depends on the project. An F5 may cost $500.00 - $1,000.00 for a basic build (I know that folks do a lot of beautiful custom casework that has to cost big $$$) but I am sure it rivals and / or surpasses many of the big dollar commercial products. The AmpCamp amps combined with a B1 and an ODAC in one case cost me about $350.00 and I don't think I can find anything that sounds as good as that for twice the price.
Look about the web for something simialar to what you are building if you want a price comparison, I find a lot of these great DIY designs can sound better dollar for dollar than a similar commercial product.
Look about the web for something simialar to what you are building if you want a price comparison, I find a lot of these great DIY designs can sound better dollar for dollar than a similar commercial product.
DIY audio can be an expensive hobby - especially if you include the cost of tools and test equipment and whatever you consider your time to be worth. But all of the frustration involved with seeing something actually go up in smoke - that's priceless!!!!
I even changed my signature line to this!!!!
speaking of Gainclones - just look at price of some of commercial ones 
I even spent some power and time , years ago , to make quick'n'dirt one and same but with esoteric execution ;
I didn't heard difference , using same (external cased ) mains xformer
and I really tried to hear difference .....
so , now I'm officially both - blind and deaf
I even spent some power and time , years ago , to make quick'n'dirt one and same but with esoteric execution ;
I didn't heard difference , using same (external cased ) mains xformer
and I really tried to hear difference .....
so , now I'm officially both - blind and deaf
You can build it with plain or exotic components or with what you might have leftover from other projects totally unrelated to audio. You could also reuse parts from old things dead or broke. Or you could buy everything with custom cut and finished hardware filled with near unobtainium parts just to squeeze out that extra low distortion number.
Depends how far you want to go, but always remember to enjoy yourself along the way. The getting there to the finish line is worth it for me.
Depends how far you want to go, but always remember to enjoy yourself along the way. The getting there to the finish line is worth it for me.
I vote "no." Of course the answer is "it depends." Do you live in a high-tax country? Then it may be cheaper to buy a kit or parts and assemble something yourself. (Think of how IKEA got started.) If you already have a set of tools, it might make sense. For example, if you are a master cabinet maker, you would probably be a fool to NOT seriously consider building top-quality cabinets and making yourself a nice speaker system, if you wanted a good system. It would be far cheaper than buying a brand name one. There is the satisfaction of designing, building, or just working on your own creation. Audio (hearing) is a subjective pleasure, and many claim to be able to hear differences. I am a skeptic. I say buy the cheapest device that will meet your needs and resist the many psychological games. If someone claims X is better than your Y, then demand some form of proof -- a blind test at least, rather than the glowing recommendation of a salesman, lunatic fringe magazine, or even a close friend.
I vote YES - on "is it worth it?"
First... there is the "learning of electronics" from the topology (first) and then theory (second) and eventually the math (third). You go from reading about it, to looking at schematics, to gathering all sorts of schematics, to trying out the simple ones, to making changes you think might work, to having them fail, to learning theory, to working out the math, then making "informed" changes ... and having them work in a many-month-to-many-year process.
Second... you become part of a community of moderately eccentric fanatics who similarly understand to varying degrees, the same stuff. You'll never meet most of us. We're as virtual as the Internet allows.
Third... then there's Pride of Accomplishment, where even if you build exactly the same thing that someone else "just buys", ... you can say "yah, but, I built mine" ... which necessarily includes finding all the squirrely parts and finishing pieces.
Fourth... the combination of learning, understanding, prospecting and provisioning then becomes a Hobby ... where your mind can wander for years thinking up new designs, new fields to plough. This is not dissatisfaction, but wanderlust. Another mountain to climb, another vista to enjoy.
Fifth... Then there's the SKILL you also get - which granted ain't likely to get you many jobs, but still is analytic and will contribute to your future job market possibilities. This alone some argue "is worth it". I differ, and just think of it as a side-benefit.
Sixth... as you get older, surer, more realistic and confident at the same time, you will be surprised to find that there are younger folks who you can mentor, who want to supercharge their entry-and-advance. There's something satisfying about even light teaching, imparting knowledge to others. Pretty baseline human if you ask me.
Seventh... You will accumulate "things to give away" - special gifts for special friends. There'll always be a hand-me-down project that produced excellent results, but has been superceded by another fine design. Maybe you'll charge the friend a fraction of its real value (thus again gifting the friend), maybe you'll give it away, like my friend gives away his competency "working on cars". Handiwork, craftsmanship, all good.
There probably are another 3 ... to make the glorious "Ten Good Reasons" ... but these 7 are enough.
GoatGuy
First... there is the "learning of electronics" from the topology (first) and then theory (second) and eventually the math (third). You go from reading about it, to looking at schematics, to gathering all sorts of schematics, to trying out the simple ones, to making changes you think might work, to having them fail, to learning theory, to working out the math, then making "informed" changes ... and having them work in a many-month-to-many-year process.
Second... you become part of a community of moderately eccentric fanatics who similarly understand to varying degrees, the same stuff. You'll never meet most of us. We're as virtual as the Internet allows.
Third... then there's Pride of Accomplishment, where even if you build exactly the same thing that someone else "just buys", ... you can say "yah, but, I built mine" ... which necessarily includes finding all the squirrely parts and finishing pieces.
Fourth... the combination of learning, understanding, prospecting and provisioning then becomes a Hobby ... where your mind can wander for years thinking up new designs, new fields to plough. This is not dissatisfaction, but wanderlust. Another mountain to climb, another vista to enjoy.
Fifth... Then there's the SKILL you also get - which granted ain't likely to get you many jobs, but still is analytic and will contribute to your future job market possibilities. This alone some argue "is worth it". I differ, and just think of it as a side-benefit.
Sixth... as you get older, surer, more realistic and confident at the same time, you will be surprised to find that there are younger folks who you can mentor, who want to supercharge their entry-and-advance. There's something satisfying about even light teaching, imparting knowledge to others. Pretty baseline human if you ask me.
Seventh... You will accumulate "things to give away" - special gifts for special friends. There'll always be a hand-me-down project that produced excellent results, but has been superceded by another fine design. Maybe you'll charge the friend a fraction of its real value (thus again gifting the friend), maybe you'll give it away, like my friend gives away his competency "working on cars". Handiwork, craftsmanship, all good.
There probably are another 3 ... to make the glorious "Ten Good Reasons" ... but these 7 are enough.
GoatGuy
Hi,
Recapping the signal electrolytics in something like a used Pioneer
A-300X will give you a fantastic amplifier you couldn't hope to build
for anywhere near the price, its my favourite budget amplifier.
Both really good sound and excellent build quality, for a lot less
used than a A-400, which is also good, but not as good value.
rgds, sreten.
In terms of sound for money, DIY is terrible.
I'll leave an open challenge here: build something better than a pair of Behringer B2030A monitors, for the same price (£250, all in).
Even if you work for free, the parts would cost more.
However, DIY is about more than that: see GoatGuy's post above.
Chris
I'll leave an open challenge here: build something better than a pair of Behringer B2030A monitors, for the same price (£250, all in).
Even if you work for free, the parts would cost more.
However, DIY is about more than that: see GoatGuy's post above.
Chris
DIY audio can be an expensive hobby - especially if you include the cost of tools and test equipment and whatever you consider your time to be worth. But all of the frustration involved with seeing something actually go up in smoke - that's priceless!!!!
This is a statement that will last forever.
I've been researching, designing and building audio stuff since the mid 1960's, as a hobbyist, and eventually professionally. Before the mid 1980's I could justify the costs and time spent as an investment into my career. Now that most of the related jobs have moved out of the U.S., to places like China, it's just a hobby again. It's home to me. Gives me something to be excited about. It connects me to good quality people. My projects and ability to help other hobbyists gives me pride.
Part sources are gradually disappearing, and costs are getting too high, while China made products are so cheap for what you get that there's no way to really compete any more. Doing audio engineering as a hobby is sure a lot better than sitting in front of a TV set eating cheese puffs or drinking booze your whole life (like my neighbor who will probably be dead in the next year). I sure do miss being able to make a living with it though...
Part sources are gradually disappearing, and costs are getting too high, while China made products are so cheap for what you get that there's no way to really compete any more. Doing audio engineering as a hobby is sure a lot better than sitting in front of a TV set eating cheese puffs or drinking booze your whole life (like my neighbor who will probably be dead in the next year). I sure do miss being able to make a living with it though...
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