why does the 'challenge' always come down to this? Yeah for sure it is a valid question, but I hardly ever see the opposite.
Why can the question not be 'build something equal to or exceeding those mega buck bling systems (80 thou mains with cables and ics worth tens of thou with amps costing another fifty large)' and then tell us how much it cost you????
Sure, it will cost a pretty penny, but far less than buying from the boutique guys.
Can it be done? Why not, as much as the mags et al will try and tell us there is an arcane art to it and alon wolf etc has the hidden knowledge.....
anyway, as much as the question posed is valid then equally is the other question.
Take advices from experienced DIYers, then you can get better sound with less money.
LM3886 is very cheap for the sound it can produce. Commercial amps with LM3886 cost far more than 200 euro.
Now there is price for cosmetics and beauties. If cosmetics is not important for you, put the amp in shoe box
You used 2 monoblocks. The casings will be more expensive than one box with one transformer. Almost nothing to gain in term of sound quality.
And gold plated WBT will not sound better than bare wires...
Used amps are usually cheap (especially if it is broken, just make sure the power supply is okay). You can replace the amp module with 12-Euro LM3886s. Imagine what vintage amp you can get with 88 Euros to make up a 100-Euro Gainclone amp.
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DIY comes into it's own if you already have some of the parts or are prepared to salvage. many of us become real magpies over time and pick things up from everywhere and anywhere.
Building even cheapie gain clone monoblocks is never going to be a cheap excercise if you are going to buy everything from new.
As had already been said, the LM3886 is good but not fantastic. You won't realy benefit from a dual monoblock system, you won't necessarily hear any improvment with a dual monobrick (ie two amps in one shared case). With a reasonable power supply you may not even notice too much difference with a standard stereo set-up.
DIY realy comes into its own when you start to consider cloning the real leviathons out there. Krell, Mark Levinson, Pass to name just three. Now these beasts cost many tens of thousands of pounds, even second hand, and can be sucessfully cloned for just a few hundred pounds.
Building even cheapie gain clone monoblocks is never going to be a cheap excercise if you are going to buy everything from new.
As had already been said, the LM3886 is good but not fantastic. You won't realy benefit from a dual monoblock system, you won't necessarily hear any improvment with a dual monobrick (ie two amps in one shared case). With a reasonable power supply you may not even notice too much difference with a standard stereo set-up.
DIY realy comes into its own when you start to consider cloning the real leviathons out there. Krell, Mark Levinson, Pass to name just three. Now these beasts cost many tens of thousands of pounds, even second hand, and can be sucessfully cloned for just a few hundred pounds.
I'd consider those Behringers a minimum for home stereo. If you just wanted to listen to music (instead of tweaking forever), my point is that you couldn't spend less and get more.
At the other end of the scale, it's easy, especially when you look at "HiFi" gear (studio gear appears to be more difficult to beat): that stuff is (so far as I've seen) always sold with a huge profit margin. The Neat Motive range, for example, uses Peerless midbasses at £16 a pop. The completed speakers cost circa £1000.
I could probably build something similar for a couple of hundred pounds, or spend £1000 and build something that would annihilate them.
Going further up the scale to the really expensive gear, and I expect bigger still profit margins, which again makes them easy to beat.
Part of DIY is the challenge. Getting better performance than commercial HiFi speakers at a similar price is fairly easy. Outdoing Behringer, with the massive economies of scale in their favour, that is where the challenges are.
Chris
Interesting thread! I've listened to many amps, tube & solid state, and I can say the gainclone is very good, as are the many Tripath class amps, and they are available very cheaply. Where things get expensive is how you choose to supply power & the cosmetic standards you are prepared to accept. I ended up spending 10 times the cost of the gainclone card on it's psu. The key here choice...I'd rather plan a project using parts that I think have a good performance : cost ratio, than buy cheap and rip out the generic components to replace with higher quality. Buy cheap, buy twice?
I also agree with Katie&Dad - I could open a shop with all the bits I've accumulated! I've also yet to meet someone who can justify the price of Krell, Goldmund, etc, with a demonstrably huge gap between their kit and mine. Law of diminishing returns.
I also agree with Katie&Dad - I could open a shop with all the bits I've accumulated! I've also yet to meet someone who can justify the price of Krell, Goldmund, etc, with a demonstrably huge gap between their kit and mine. Law of diminishing returns.
When you get to the real Hi-End of Hi-Fi it's not always the "PERFECT" sound that you are looking for. It's more the "SIGNATURE" sound. Krell Owners will declare war over Pass owners as will owners of other Hi-Fi designers. It is the DIY spirit that will enable you to find that audio Nirvana that is unique to you.
Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If YOU like the sound of a system, then that system is the one for you. You may of course change your mind occasionally as I certainly have over the years.
The gainclone is not the only excellent audio contender though. It might be worth considering in advance what you can use over and over again to experiment between say a pass F5 and an LM3886 build. The amp itself is only a tiny part of the project build cost - the expensive parts can be re-used to play in this enlightening hobby. I've only chosen those two examples as they are fairly similar in cost to implement.
Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If YOU like the sound of a system, then that system is the one for you. You may of course change your mind occasionally as I certainly have over the years.
The gainclone is not the only excellent audio contender though. It might be worth considering in advance what you can use over and over again to experiment between say a pass F5 and an LM3886 build. The amp itself is only a tiny part of the project build cost - the expensive parts can be re-used to play in this enlightening hobby. I've only chosen those two examples as they are fairly similar in cost to implement.
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In some cases DIY can be cheaper that commercial stuff, take an F5 for example.
first watt sold them for around 3000$ if I remember, and you can build one for 500-750$. the exact same circuit, same parts, different aesthetics.
The new F5turbo can be built for around 1000$, if probably won't find a class A with such a performance and power figures for less than 5000$.
If you build speakers (several kits around the web, you can spend around 5 or 6 times less than a comercial equivalent.
But for low budget electronics I believe one can't beat the quantity pricing and cheap labor of comercial (and professional ) amplifiers and speakers.
first watt sold them for around 3000$ if I remember, and you can build one for 500-750$. the exact same circuit, same parts, different aesthetics.
The new F5turbo can be built for around 1000$, if probably won't find a class A with such a performance and power figures for less than 5000$.
If you build speakers (several kits around the web, you can spend around 5 or 6 times less than a comercial equivalent.
But for low budget electronics I believe one can't beat the quantity pricing and cheap labor of comercial (and professional ) amplifiers and speakers.
My Brother-in-Law built the Aleph 4 (100W / Channel Pure Class A) for just over £500. But he did take many months collecting parts and saved himself over £15K.
I've still got the link to the effort that he put into building this fantastic amplifier.
However, let us not turn this thread into another contest of amplifiers. the question remains, is it worth doing things DIY.
It's interesting how perceptions change over the years.
Once upon a time QUAD's motto was something like - Anything less than perfect is unnaceptable.
The legendary Quad Power Amps are now slated as poor rubbish in the light of current trends. E-Bay offers loads of Quad clone boards for those that want to try to recreate something akin to the original Quad idea.
NAIM and NAD are even more contenders for E-Bay cloning.
Are these amps even close to the originals? I don't know, I've crept into higher eschellons.
I've still got the link to the effort that he put into building this fantastic amplifier.
However, let us not turn this thread into another contest of amplifiers. the question remains, is it worth doing things DIY.
It's interesting how perceptions change over the years.
Once upon a time QUAD's motto was something like - Anything less than perfect is unnaceptable.
The legendary Quad Power Amps are now slated as poor rubbish in the light of current trends. E-Bay offers loads of Quad clone boards for those that want to try to recreate something akin to the original Quad idea.
NAIM and NAD are even more contenders for E-Bay cloning.
Are these amps even close to the originals? I don't know, I've crept into higher eschellons.
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Is cooking worth while?
There are plenty of pre-cooked/pre-made foods out there. Some expensive, some cheap.
When cooking for yourself, you can spend a lot, or a little. Depends on the ingredients you use.
Some people love to cook, some people hate it.
I have many unfinished DIY projects. Even though they are not done, some of them are my favorites. It all depends on what you are looking to get out of it.
There are plenty of pre-cooked/pre-made foods out there. Some expensive, some cheap.
When cooking for yourself, you can spend a lot, or a little. Depends on the ingredients you use.
Some people love to cook, some people hate it.
I have many unfinished DIY projects. Even though they are not done, some of them are my favorites. It all depends on what you are looking to get out of it.
I suspect you are correct. I do like to see other folks philosophy on the subject though...
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