Its a british belief that children must be forced information like they are dogs, and I never understood it, I learnt only by learning by myself.
Here in australia its also a common belief that if you are rough with dogs they will obey you, which is true in a way but there are other means of training.
Here in australia its also a common belief that if you are rough with dogs they will obey you, which is true in a way but there are other means of training.
The problem,
With learning is the student has to want to know what’s being taught..so it goes that most things in the world of business "they" want you to know, is the stuff most people try to avoid..(Even most of the quals required for any path in life) how much do you use in the job after your head is crammed with information (most of it unnecessary for the job). I remember a guy saying to me once these people are illiterate "read useless"..I said if you were stuck by a river stranded and one of the illiterate people could make a boat would they still be useless? He didn't answer.
Regards
M. Gregg
With learning is the student has to want to know what’s being taught..so it goes that most things in the world of business "they" want you to know, is the stuff most people try to avoid..(Even most of the quals required for any path in life) how much do you use in the job after your head is crammed with information (most of it unnecessary for the job). I remember a guy saying to me once these people are illiterate "read useless"..I said if you were stuck by a river stranded and one of the illiterate people could make a boat would they still be useless? He didn't answer.
Regards
M. Gregg
I remember,
Being "told" by someone in a college..people should be taught how and what to teach...Rammed down your throat so nothing else matters..not even the subject being taught...
Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The above link is a good example..then you are told by the college..stuff all that and money and funding is the primary and only issue...Go and get the class full of students...fill the paperwork in triplicate then do the same on the computer system because the paperwork is just in case its lost...
So you have OFSTED<<<What a bunch of idiots...preaching learning..followed by the college after they have gone...stuff that get the money and funding sorted..What about the lessons<<<well fit them around the funding...
(The college)Oh look..we can make thousands of pounds if we teach key skills..but the students already have a "C" in Maths and English...Make them do it again and we can claim all the funding...What adout the course they are doing just get them through so we can do it all again..this is a buisiness now so think of it as production..<<<don't argue or you can see me in the office for a warning....
Regards
M. Gregg
Being "told" by someone in a college..people should be taught how and what to teach...Rammed down your throat so nothing else matters..not even the subject being taught...
Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The above link is a good example..then you are told by the college..stuff all that and money and funding is the primary and only issue...Go and get the class full of students...fill the paperwork in triplicate then do the same on the computer system because the paperwork is just in case its lost...
So you have OFSTED<<<What a bunch of idiots...preaching learning..followed by the college after they have gone...stuff that get the money and funding sorted..What about the lessons<<<well fit them around the funding...
(The college)Oh look..we can make thousands of pounds if we teach key skills..but the students already have a "C" in Maths and English...Make them do it again and we can claim all the funding...What adout the course they are doing just get them through so we can do it all again..this is a buisiness now so think of it as production..
<<<don't argue or you can see me in the office for a warning....Regards
M. Gregg
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That must be a different Britain from the one I live in. Here the main belief is that children can learn by being tested continually, although using tests which are 'grade inflated' when compared with the ones from 40 years ago. The main snag is that rigid marking schemes encourage those with good memories instead of knowledge.freax said:
Being forced to actually learn things would be a step forward, although still inferior to deep understanding.
Old folk have always blamed education and bad parenting for the perceived problems of youth.
Many subjects are pretty much the same as they were 40 yrs ago, and are taught in the same way, to the same standards. English literature A level, for example, still does Shakespeare, and novels and poetry selected for their Empire values and anti-socialist propaganda.
The big changes are in maths and sciences. The scale and scope of the subjects themselves have been transformed, so comparison is very difficult.
It's certainly true that a gulf has opened up between good and bad schools, in relatively rich and poor areas respectively. Alternative and corrupted standards apply to qualifications for the poor. FE colleges have always been thoroughly corrupt, but it's in nobody's interest to raise the matter.
That division, it seems to me, puts us back 50 yrs to a time when educating the proletariat would only make them troublesome. Same applies now, for a different reason. Other than keeping young people off the street, what would it be for?
Occasionally, there is an echo of Wilson's "white heat" speech, but it's fainter each iteration. Who can predict what kind of work all these people will be doing 5 yrs from now?
Ours were halcyon days.
Many subjects are pretty much the same as they were 40 yrs ago, and are taught in the same way, to the same standards. English literature A level, for example, still does Shakespeare, and novels and poetry selected for their Empire values and anti-socialist propaganda.
The big changes are in maths and sciences. The scale and scope of the subjects themselves have been transformed, so comparison is very difficult.
It's certainly true that a gulf has opened up between good and bad schools, in relatively rich and poor areas respectively. Alternative and corrupted standards apply to qualifications for the poor. FE colleges have always been thoroughly corrupt, but it's in nobody's interest to raise the matter.
That division, it seems to me, puts us back 50 yrs to a time when educating the proletariat would only make them troublesome. Same applies now, for a different reason. Other than keeping young people off the street, what would it be for?
Occasionally, there is an echo of Wilson's "white heat" speech, but it's fainter each iteration. Who can predict what kind of work all these people will be doing 5 yrs from now?
Ours were halcyon days.
No, comparison is straightforward. Significant chunks of the more difficult mathematics, such as calculus and logarithms, have simply been removed from the pre-16 syllabus and put into the sixth form. As a result children at 16 get higher marks in an easier exam, yet have less mathematical knowledge and experience. They find a big jump to A-level, and an even bigger jump to university. By the time they leave university they are still below the standards of the previous generation.PlasticIsGood said:
Some may argue that UK school and undergraduate standards were too high (and too narrow) 30-40 years ago so it was right for us to adopt a broader shallower system, but I disagree. What is definitely true is that our system has lost depth.
Yes, I agree. Having abandoned school selection by ability, we now have selection by parental income. Selection at university entrance is now more of a lottery than it was, as both the excellent and the good students have a set of A and A* to offer.
I was fortunate to go through school in the late 1960s and university in the early 1970s. My relatively poor working-class background was no hindrance. British children of today, whatever their ability, get a very raw deal in comparison.
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DF96, the difficult subjects such as calculus are replaced by other subjects, which I (now that I'm doing a Physics degree) have found very useful to have: surds and circle theorems (the former helped with the mindset needed for imaginary numbers; the latter is useful in some mechanics - for the record, neither are particularly useful in themselves at GCSE level).
A-level wasn't a big jump. University is, but I suspect that's more down to the fact that most students are thrown into lectures and living independently, both of will be new to the majority.
Chris
A-level wasn't a big jump. University is, but I suspect that's more down to the fact that most students are thrown into lectures and living independently, both of will be new to the majority.
Chris
It was a long time ago, but I believe my O-level maths included surds and lots of geometric theorems as well as much more algebra than now. The modern Free Standing Additional Maths qualification is similar in content to O-level. We had a different exam called Additional Maths which counted as an O-level but was usually taken in the lower sixth; it roughly corresponds to a modern AS.
Another difference now is that A-level Physics has less maths. I remember reading a few years ago that a physics teacher took his A-level class to a university open day, where they were treated to a typical first-year lecture. He was shocked at how quickly the lecturer moved from description to maths. A physics teacher of my day would not have been shocked by this; he would have expected it as he would have been doing exactly the same with his A-level class. Physics without maths isn't physics.
The big jump in my day was from 40 minute school lessons with supplied notes to hour long lectures with no notes. Nowadays notes are provided and module 'Learning Outcomes' tell you exactly what you need to learn.
I hope your studies go well. Physics is fun!
Another difference now is that A-level Physics has less maths. I remember reading a few years ago that a physics teacher took his A-level class to a university open day, where they were treated to a typical first-year lecture. He was shocked at how quickly the lecturer moved from description to maths. A physics teacher of my day would not have been shocked by this; he would have expected it as he would have been doing exactly the same with his A-level class. Physics without maths isn't physics.
The big jump in my day was from 40 minute school lessons with supplied notes to hour long lectures with no notes. Nowadays notes are provided and module 'Learning Outcomes' tell you exactly what you need to learn.
I hope your studies go well. Physics is fun!
Our lecturers are fairly good with notes (or lack of) - many keep them minimal (or non-existent) so that we're forced to attend if we want a decent grade.
Physics can be rather fun, but some of the assignments aren't - attached is an example: the average score was in the low 40s.
I definitely agree WRT A-level Physics. Ideally, for students taking maths and physics, they'd teach the entire A-level maths course in 1 year, then go through the physics in the second year, with the advantage of understanding what's going on with the equations, instead of being told that it works, so don't ask too many questions
Chris
Physics can be rather fun, but some of the assignments aren't - attached is an example: the average score was in the low 40s.
I definitely agree WRT A-level Physics. Ideally, for students taking maths and physics, they'd teach the entire A-level maths course in 1 year, then go through the physics in the second year, with the advantage of understanding what's going on with the equations, instead of being told that it works, so don't ask too many questions
Chris
Attachments
Well,
Only my thoughts, where is the innovation...the free (Constructive) thinkers?
There are plenty of (destructive)thinkers..who is going to drive the human race forward..It seems we do well if we manage to survive in this money driven world...I'm thinking of the innovation and free thinking..it seems to be held down and controlled...Ie find a job and earn what you can..
Think about invention...rather than survival..Education for what purpose?
Regards
M. Gregg
Only my thoughts, where is the innovation...the free (Constructive) thinkers?
There are plenty of (destructive)thinkers..who is going to drive the human race forward..It seems we do well if we manage to survive in this money driven world...I'm thinking of the innovation and free thinking..it seems to be held down and controlled...Ie find a job and earn what you can..
Think about invention...rather than survival..Education for what purpose?
Regards
M. Gregg
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There are two ways to be a 'free thinker':
1. Learn what is already known, and try to understand it, while noting difficulties and contradictions. See how it can be improved and extended, if necessary by revising some of it, but remaining humble and subject to annoying details such as the genuine results of well-designed experiments.
2. Remain ignorant and indulge in wild speculation unhindered by facts.
Only the first type of free thinker is useful. Successful scientists are often free thinkers of the first kind, despite being regarded by non-scientists as conformists.
1. Learn what is already known, and try to understand it, while noting difficulties and contradictions. See how it can be improved and extended, if necessary by revising some of it, but remaining humble and subject to annoying details such as the genuine results of well-designed experiments.
2. Remain ignorant and indulge in wild speculation unhindered by facts.
Only the first type of free thinker is useful. Successful scientists are often free thinkers of the first kind, despite being regarded by non-scientists as conformists.
Well,
The way I see it is the first kind is important..the second kind who understand the first kind and refer to imagination gives the drive for discovery..ie the science fiction Flat TV...the idea was not possible to put in practice..however it was put in scifi<<<the idea was the driving force for the real thing..lets look a bit further..beam be up scotty<<never possible we assume. Travel faster than light speed also not possible we assume.
Regards
M. Gregg
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